Podcast: Download
Runtime: 30 minutes.
Change happens, baby! You either stay composed, or you unravel. (or you leave your keys in the door and put the milk in the closet). In this podcast Katie and Carol talk some of the best tips from Katie’s new book on making brave transitions.
Whether it’s divorce, changing jobs or empty nesting there are ways to cope with courage and grace that you might not think about until you hear Carol and Katie in this episode. We’ll instruct you to recall the changes you’ve endured before. The ones staring you in the face are more manageable than you think. We can draw upon those successful experiences to recall confidence.
Register for our Wine Webinar Wednesday on Brave Transitions for Women in Change
Tips and thoughts:
As a woman, what do you need to know about managing yourself through a transition?
… Change actually has some predictability to it. Knowing that can help you accept it more quickly, and then move past it.
… Your best strengths have surfaced when you have endured a change well. Take inventory of those occasionally.
… Knowing what you have lost in the change can unlock the gate to moving forward. Embrace it to let go of it.
… Perhaps one of the most frustrating changes we see at work, is change that doesn’t change anything or makes things worse! (we have no advice for this except to collectively groan with you)
… Our lives are built on one chapter after another. It’s a beautiful journey!
Here is part of what the subscribed members are getting. If you’re still scouting and think this may be a good fit for you, here’s where you upgrade.
Subscribed members are getting skills and assignments to:
- Name the change they are experiencing or have recently gone through
- Identify whether transitions are within their control or whether they are done TO you (ouch)
- Discover the predictability in the cycles of change (a la ups and downs)
- Find their resistance and label it (this’ll help you give it a kick in the ass)
- Position the positive
- Find their own style of confidence to get through it.
Other related areas to check out at the website:
- Video training Receiving Criticism with Style and Grace
- Training package for effectively Interacting With Others
PODCAST TRANSCRIPTION
Hello and welcome to the Skirt Strategies podcast, the podcast to help you get the support, validation and skills you need to accomplish your goals and really succeed in a male dominated world – all without having to give up your incredible female strengths.
Carol: We interrupt this program for – not a monthly tip, but a monthly topic.
Katie what are we going to talk about in this podcast?
Katie: Something new. Well, not completely new. But it’s definitely a different format, rather than a tip from the book – Skirt Strategies.
We’re going to present one of our thematic topics that we cover periodically at the website.
Carol: We do.
So every month, we come up with a different topic to delve into. And this month – we’re talking about brave transitions for women. And we thought it would be great to bring to the podcast listeners as well.
Katie: Sure. Because managing changes something that everyone deals with – especially women because women have to manage the change. This is not a therapy for that.
Carol: All change and the change. And it’s not easy to manage change. And sometimes it’s depressing and other things come up for you. So we’re going to help you through that.
Katie: Scary, exciting, unpredictable.
Carol: Right. So the tagline on this – is staying composed through changes in your life and career.
Don’t you wish you could do that? Doesn’t that kind of give you a…
Katie: Stay and composed. I love the word composed.
Carol: I do too. You know, we’re not going to promise you that we can do this, but we think we can help you through. If you’re going through a transition, we’re here.
Katie: I gravitate to the word compose. You know, they say you gravitate to what you need the most.
Carol: Oh, you always seem very composed.
Katie: Oh, you’re sweet. It’s kind of like when you see a model or someone with a nice figure. Do you go immediately to the part of the body that you wish you had more of?
For me – it’s the thighs. I’ll look at her thighs or her butt. “God! She has great thighs.”
Carol: Interesting. Yeah, I probably do. I’ll look at that flat stomach.
Katie: So before the end of this podcast, we’ll teach everyone how to have less belly fat and firm thighs without medication.
Women go through transitions. I don’t know if it’s any different than men. But we deal more differently, definitely with our self-confidence.
Carol: Oh, definitely. Self-confidence – How do you cope? Can you cope gracefully through transition? Can you cope without getting depressed?
Katie: There’s lots of coping mechanisms that we can share. And in fact, on the website – we’ll have a webinar that will be the companion training to this. This is a great podcast, free listening, about a half an hour of Katie and Carol giving some insights.
But to take it into the training tactical mode, we have to go into webinar format. So our webinar on the website will have some more about that.
So if you’re looking for a little bit more of the training piece, search – skirtstrategies.com for Brave Transitions for Women or as Carol says, #btw.
Carol: The way brave transitions for women.
Katie: Good one. I’m sure we’ll get tons and tons of SEO traffic that way.
Carol: Yes, I’m sure.
Katie: What does it take to go through a life change?
Career change maybe doesn’t happen quite as often, I don’t know – maybe more often. But let’s talk first about a life change samples, divorce, child-rearing, child-unrearing – getting them out of the house.
Carol: Empty nesting.
Katie: Retirement that causes you to come back to the house more, changing homes – or to change, changing your routine at home.
You know, my husband in recent months, (a year and a half now) started commuting.
Carol: Oh, that’s right, hugely commuting to another part of the state.
Katie: I mean, he’s home for like 48 hours during the weekend now, is it? So we have quality time.
Carol: But that’s hard. That’s a big change.
Katie: It’s a change in your routine.
Carol: If you’re used to being around with somebody a lot – and then, they’re not there.
Katie: Right. It was amazing to me – how at first, it was noble. And then, it became a different routine and it was disruptive – because no matter what the change is, there are behavioral adjustments that you have to make.
Carol: There are. I mean, something that many of us have gone through is… So as you’re thinking about, “Well, what transition am I going through? How does this work for me?”
You know, a lot of us have gone through divorces. And I think about that and I think about the pain and the suffering. And it’s not that you’re not going to have that pain or suffering, but we’re going to help you get through it with a little bit of confidence.
Katie: Confidence and composure.
Carol: Yeah. So you’re going to go through the pain and suffering. That’s just all there is to it, but you will know that on the other side of this time that you’re spending in this transition, you’re going to be okay.
Katie: That is why we bring confidence into the picture. To stay composed, requires some confidence behind it. To have the confidence – what does that take? Mental fortitude, strength and ideas.
Carol: Mental fortitude – you say that, all I can think is MF.
Katie: Mental MF? Not intestinal fortitude – which maybe takes that as well.
Carol: No.
Katie: Even false confidence breathes confidence.
Carol: Sure.
Katie: If you act as if it gives you enough of the guts or the chutzpah or the spunk…
Carol: It actually gives you enough of the hormones of confidence. You know, the chemical of confidence is released. And therefore, you feel more confident.
Katie: The chemical is called confidence? That’s weird.
Carol: No, it’s not. But I don’t know if its dopamine or one of those chemicals that is.
Katie: Made by Eli Lilly. Our sponsor today is Eli Lilly.
Carol: New drug called confidence.
Katie: There is a sense that if I can get my body to behave in the way I need to – even if I have to fake it into it…
Carol: Yeah.
Katie: This is good because I have a tennis match this afternoon. I’m a little nervous. So I’m reminding myself of my confidence.
And it’s great to use as an example because I’ll think, “Why am I a little shaky?” Here’s a little competitive situation I’m about to be in. “Why? Where’s the confidence?”
Well, it’s a change for me. It’s a new team. It’s playing with somebody I’ve never even met before and I’m filling in for somebody else because she got sick.
Carol: Right.
Katie: So I want to perform, but I also am a little bit like, “This is really good. I’m so glad to be stepping in. I’m glad to see the change. I’m glad to take on this new team. I’m glad to meet these new people.”
But I also want them to feel confident in me. So I’m going to be confident. I’m going to illustrate composure.
In change, we’ve got to do the same thing. Can you do that too early in a change? Do you need to grapple with something first?
Carol: You know, it’s funny when I was going through my divorce. People would be like, “Oh, I’m so sorry.” And you know what? I had been going through it for probably two years prior to that.
So by the time everybody knew I was getting divorced, I had already mentally been through it. So I almost couldn’t do the sad thing.
Katie: Yes.
Carol: I couldn’t act sad about it. It was behind me at that point because I had been going through it for so long.
So you can look like you’re composed a little bit too early. Like you have to look like you’re grieving a little bit.
Katie: Right.
Carol: It just doesn’t look right to say, “I’m doing cartwheels!”
Katie: Well, there’s an aspect depending on your situation. In mine, I was relieved. It wasn’t a shocker to me. It wasn’t news. It was something that had been coming. It was something happened that broke the straw – put the camel’s back on the veil of hay.
And I knew that it was okay. Now, I’m confident on my decision. It’s done. It’s going to happen.
So I remember my friends thinking, “Gosh! You don’t seem too upset.” It’s because I’d already really kind of gone through that grieving process.
And then, I was ready for my friends to start setting me up with people and they’re like, “You’ve been divorced like two months. Is it a little early?”
Carol: “Can you grieve a little bit?” So understand that there is that point where you can show a little bit too much overconfidence in the grieving process.
Katie: There’s a phase of loss that has to happen. I’m not a Psychologist, but I am sleeping with one. So it would be a good podcast to have the undercover man – because I know one.
Carol: Right.
Katie: Now that I’ve said who he is – he would be able to shed some light on this.
But the issue of loss – to me is a big piece of getting through change. Partly because it’s what you have to let go. It’s what was in the previous life.
And if we use the example of a divorce and a new life – the new life doesn’t have necessarily the stability and the predictability or some piece of it. Not that the old one was definitely predictable or stable, but I knew what in the case of my divorce – I knew what it looked like to have a husband that was helping raise the two kids and we were in the same house and if I had a business trip, we had a plan. So as a new single mom, I was insecure around – “How do I do this?”
That’s where the confidence has to come in. For me what worked very well – (and I’m sure for many women who are facing that sort of a change) the recommendation to just jump in and do it and get some activity. Just be active. Just do something. It can be one of the coping mechanisms.
Carol: Interesting.
Katie: Knowing how I am leaving behind something that was comfortable – can make that coping mechanism happen faster.
So as an example: Let’s say that you’re changing jobs. And at your old job, you had a boss. (You could be even changing bosses.) But at your old job, you had a boss that covered for you, was looking out for you, plugged you into meetings, gave you exposure to the next level up, talk with you about your career planning. And you felt like you had an advocate at a more authoritative level. What a bonus, right?
Carol: Right.
Katie: So this boss that you used to work for was great and in fact, you kind of set out a career path.
Well, now you change jobs or you’re in a situation now where that boss is not there. Well, think about what you’ve just lost?
Carol: Right.
Katie: You’ve lost the security of knowing that you had that career path. You’ve lost the sense of having somebody in leadership with a position of authority that you could talk to.
The faster you can name that loss, the more quickly you can replace it.
Carol: Oh, nice! Okay. That’s a good coping mechanism.
Katie: But here’s the trick. You have to be a little bit of a mental giant to do that. You have to have a little bit of emotional intelligence. Because many of us react in blue, “I don’t know. I don’t have any motivation.”
Carol: You’re depressed. Yes.
Katie: And you can’t really put your finger on it. But if you can put your finger on it, you can then identify it, state it, embrace it, let it go and then replace it in the new life.
Carol: I have an example.
Katie: Let’s hear it.
Carol: So in a divorce, doesn’t everybody lose friends?
Katie: Oh, they pick a side?
Carol: Or they can’t pick a side and you don’t want to make them pick a side.
Anyway, you’re going to lose some friends and you’re probably not going to hang out with them anymore.
So if you can name that as one of the things that is hurting you and making you feel bad about the divorce, if you can name it and move on and make some new friends, then you’re getting through it.
Katie: Great example.
Carol: The transition is happening. You know, you and I have both had in the last two years – the transition of empty nesting. And I don’t think either one of us had a huge problem with it but.
My daughter just went back to college and she’s been here all summer. And of course we don’t see her very much – she’s working, she’s partying, she’s doing whatever. But still there’s a little bit of, “Oh.”
Katie: What is that? So what’s that loss?
Carol: That loss – is having another person in the house to love and care for.
Katie: Your baby?
Carol: Yeah, and worry about –I guess as much as anything.
Now, do I want to replace that? No.
Can I get through it? Yes.
Katie: Are you losing your nurturing outlet?
Carol: Yeah, kind of.
Katie: And why is that a loss?
Carol: Because I like doing that.
Katie: Because it was your definition and it gives you value and it gives you a sense of being important to somebody.
So with that in mind – How would you replace it? Have another baby?
Carol: Well, I’m looking for grandkids. But it doesn’t seem to be happening.
Katie: I know a husband of yours that would love to be nurtured more.
Carol: Oh, I bet. Yeah, there’s that too.
Then that’s fun. You know, we are actually having a lot of fun when we don’t have the responsibility of having kids at home. We have a lot of fun.
So I think we’re getting through it and replacing some of that time that we spend – nurturing with fun things for the two of us to do.
Katie: So it’s a shift?
Carol: Yes.
Katie: You shift into something new. And in that case, it can be unintentional.
And sometimes it happens to you. Like could you’ve controlled the kids leaving the house? Maybe.
You don’t want to do that.
Carol: Lock them in their room for the rest of their life.
Katie: Right. So in many cases, it’s a trigger event that happens to us that we feel helpless – because we didn’t have control over the event.
That compounds the sense of loss, compounds that feeling that, “Now, I’m being thrown in to this new thing and I’m having to let go of the old thing.”
Again, same coping mechanism. Identify what the loss is. What you liked from it. What it did for you. And embrace it and let it go.
Carol: Nice.
Katie: So that now, you can maybe replace it. Either you replace it or in the case of nurturing for children, maybe you make a decision that says, “My nurturing years are over until the grandkids come along.”
Carol: Right.
Katie: My nurturing years – I’m okay going on my own for a while without having somebody to nurture or I take the dogs on a walk more because now, they’re the ones that are only the two on the house depending on me. The four legged ones.
Carol: I could do something special with my dad.
Katie: Oh! Crazy type, yeah.
Carol: So I love this topic and I do know we’re going to go in depth in a webinar. And so, do look for the webinar.
But another special announcement in this podcast – is that you’re writing a book.
Katie: Oh! Well, at broadcast – (at least at recording time for this podcast.) At recording time, the book is 2/3rds of the way through.
And you are a co-author – as well as Anne Russ. Excited to have a book coming out – which is the follow on of Skirt Strategies which was our first book.
This book is titled – Brave Transitions for Women, Staying Composed through Changes in Your Life and Career.
And it is this sort of conversation that you’re having with me right now – that’s very much what the book is. As well as some exercises and some questions to take you through pieces of it like – the loss, ways of coping. We talk about the four phases of change and how you look for those. And mostly, we talk about confidence.
Carol: Nice.
Katie: So that confidence can be that tool for you that’s paving the road to make it happen.
Carol: Remaining confident and graceful in transition is not easy. And you don’t always have to do it. But we will help you through that.
Katie: My oldest daughter through a fit the other day. It wasn’t really a fit. It wasn’t like a five year old fit. But for her, she lost her composure.
And I walked in her room – she was frustrated because she was trying to get out of town, get back to college. She had a lot to do. She was doing an internship – which wasn’t a lot of hours. But in addition to that, she had what was really close to a fulltime job at a retail store.
And she was having to pack and she was having to do the chores that I had for her around the house – which weren’t very many. I do not give them nearly enough.
And so, she was just frustrated. And so, I walked into her room and I said something and she was just like, “Mom!” Oh, and then she took her brush and she threw it across the room.
Carol: Oh.
Katie: I know. And I just walked out.
Carol: Yeah.
Katie: And she’s such an empathetic. She’s so sweet. She’s just got this really good heart and she always feels horrible about anything like that.
Carol: Oh.
Katie: And I thought, “I’m just going to let her cool down. Just can’t have a conversation.”
Carol: Sure.
Katie: And I couldn’t do the mom thing where it was, “Oh, okay. That’s it! Don’t you dare talk that way to me and don’t you throw your brush in front of me.”
Carol: She’s a college student. You can’t do that.
Katie: Yeah. And I’ve heard myself enough to be that way when they were younger that I just thought, “Oh, I don’t want to sound that way.”
So I went back later and I said, “It’s okay to feel frustrated. It’s not okay to act out. You’ve got to figure out how you handle between the two.”
And she said, “I know. I’m really sorry, mom. I just felt like there was so much to do and things kept getting in my way.”
Carol: Right.
Katie: I know that feeling.
Carol: Sure.
Katie: I have taken so many years to be able to stand there like an adult. And bury it – doesn’t seem right because it seems like we got to be able to express what we want to express, right? But if you’re losing your composure…
Carol: Yeah. I mean, I talk about it all the time. You don’t do it in the workplace.
And interestingly, I had a situation just recently where somebody in my workplace lost composure. I didn’t happen to be there at the time, but I did get a written report given to me when I got back.
And my thing is – it’s just not acceptable in the workplace to lose your composure. And it was more than losing composure. It was kind of like what your daughter did. And it’s not acceptable.
You want to do that in your home life all day long? Fine! But if you’re doing it in your home life, then it’s going to boil over to your work life and it’s not acceptable. So don’t expect it to be acceptable either. Your frustrations are your frustrations and you don’t take them out on other people.
So how does that have to do with transitions?
Katie: Transitions push that button.
Carol: Right.
Katie: I was going to say almost always a composure loss is a reflection of something changing. I don’t know that that’s necessarily true.
But I can say that when things do change or you’re transitioning from one thing to the other, you’re thrown.
Carol: Yes. And you don’t really know how to act. You don’t really know how to be – because it’s a transition that you haven’t gone through a lot. You know what I mean?
Katie: Right.
Carol: I went through one divorce. Don’t plan on doing that again. It just was not that pleasant.
Katie: He will be murdered before you.
Carol: That’s true. Poison mushrooms sound good.
Katie: What about retirement?
Carol: Can’t wait! I say, but I don’t really think I’d be a very good retiree or…
Katie: Oh, I brought that up because about a year ago, I was doing a speaking engagement and we were talking about change.
It was a group of women. (Actually, this was mostly educators.) And I was talking… I can’t remember exactly what the topic specifically was, but it was generally about managing yourself through change and how the cycles have changed, happen, the ups and the downs. I do remember that.
And for those ladies that were in the room, several of them were going through the transition of retirement. And for this industry – I mean, that’s education, right? These were educators that had been in elementary or high school or whatever and some, college.
They had long careers. Those are long careers. People don’t go into education for a couple of years. These are women that had been doing it for 20 or 30 or 40 years.
The thought of retirement for them was really scary. Big adjustment.
Carol: Yeah. Well, I could see that. I mean, you’ve been doing the same thing for years and years and now you’re not anymore.
So I empathized with that because I totally have no idea what I’d do in retirement. I’m not one of those people that golfs or does other things. I work.
Katie: Yeah. Travel? You could travel.
Carol: I said, “Yeah, I fish on the weekends and I like travel to a certain degree and I did a ton of that my early years.”
Katie: Oh, I love travel.
Carol: Yeah, as long as I don’t have to be on a plane for longer than an hour – I’m good.
Katie: True.
Carol: No, I’m just kidding.
Katie: There are certain industries though – that promote the longer careers. And I think those women either changing career or retiring, I think that’s a big transition for them. So I think of that as one.
Carol: Well I mean, if you start in the education career early, you can retire after 20 to 30 years. You’re still fairly young when you’re retired.
Katie: Right, or a public service.
Carol: It could just be a transition to a new career.
Katie: It could be.
Carol: And how hard is that? How hard is it to transition from a career? I’ll tell you how hard that is.
Katie: I can, too. You go first.
Carol: You know, I was in the restaurant industry from the time I was very young. And when I left, I had no idea what I was going to do. And it was kind of through a divorce and everything else.
So everything was changing for me at that same time. My career was changing. Everything was changing. And I really (especially through the career change) had to do a lot of – just looking at my life. “What do I want to do? What do I want to be?” And I don’t know. That was hard. I think I did it gracefully.
Katie: Did you do it intentionally?
Carol: I did do it – intentionally. I knew that I didn’t want to be in that business anymore with young children because it was taking all of my time and I had no time for my kids.
Katie: I bet you went to that career and had young children. You had young children. Restaurants for children.
Carol: So I really wanted a change. And I saw other people. They’d be on my restaurants on weekends and holidays. And I’m thinking, “What do they do? They’ve got to do something that doesn’t require weekends and holidays.”
So I made a very definite change. It was difficult. But as I look back now, I made all the right moves.
But they were slow and I worked for other people for a while – while I figured out what I’m going to do.
Katie: Right. When I left the engineering career, I was recruited in the consulting business.
Carol: So was that hard? I mean, at least you knew you had a job on the other side, right?
Katie: Yes, but it was as an independent contractor. So I had to get my own business license.
So the hardest part for me – was leaving a career where I had a degree, a regular paycheck.
But you know what else I remember? (And I know many people are in the situation.) I remember being in an office job for seven years. I know that’s not very long in the big scheme.
But at my first seven years of being in an office job… I was going to say – both of those two engineering jobs, we’re in the basement of a building or the lower floor.
So I didn’t see daylight – (which is really important for me to see daylight.) And sometimes we go out at lunch with the other gang, the rest of the guys and I’d get done in about 4:00 or 5:00. So I had an easy predictable schedule and I’d be home.
But I remember on the days where I was not working – if I was taking a day off or if I was going to the dentist thinking, “Oh, my God! It’s like 11 o’clock in the morning and I’m driving around town.”
It was such a treat to have that freedom.
Carol: Weird.
Katie: What does that say about how boxed in I was? That a luxury and a pleasure was to be in a car – driving around during a weekday.
I felt so independent during those times – the days that I was off, but tied up the rest of the time.
So transitioning to a self-employed job was really fun. And it was contract money (I was a paid contractor) and it was good money, but it was also not as stable.
Carol: Not steady and stable.
Katie: Yeah.
Carol: Well, for those of you who are going through career transitions, just know – again, that you do come out on the other side and it all makes you stronger.
And I think that’s one of the messages from Skirt Strategies that we always try to get out there – is look at those changes in your life.
If right now you’re going through a divorce and you’ve gone through a career change or you’ve gone through other changes, look at those changes and realize how strong they’ve made you.
Because this transition – whatever you’re going through right now, will make you stronger as well. You just have to get through it.
So we’re here for you. Please don’t hesitate to… (Neither one of us are councilors so we can’t help you through too much.) But don’t hesitate to contact us.
Katie: We’re coaches though.
Carol: Yes, we are coaches and we can help you through certain things.
Katie: Much of this is coachable. And in fact, the drift between coaching and therapy or counselling – is if you have to get into a lot of your personal history of behaviors and family situations in order to unweave some of this, then you should see probably a therapist.
Carol: Yes, and we can’t prescribe drugs.
Katie: Dang it!
Carol: I’ll remind you of that, Katie.
Katie: I had emails that tell me I can get them for free from Canada though.
So that is good to remember. But if its behavior change and it’s based on your present day, behavior and what you’re thinking.
I would leave with our listeners about confidence. That the more you know yourself, the more you listen to yourself. And the more you do something for yourself, the more likely you are to tap into that vein of confidence – feeling braver, feeling like you can stay more composed.
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That’s it for this episode of the Skirt Strategies podcast. Thank you for joining us and please be sure to leave a question or comment at skirtstrategies.com. Remember that success comes when you lead – using your natural female strengths.
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