{"id":4377,"date":"2015-01-05T09:11:22","date_gmt":"2015-01-05T03:41:22","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/skirtstrategies.com\/?p=4377"},"modified":"2015-04-21T07:10:28","modified_gmt":"2015-04-21T01:40:28","slug":"do-not-accept-the-notion-that-some-people-will-never-change-its-not-your-call-podcast-45","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.skirtstrategies.com\/podcast\/do-not-accept-the-notion-that-some-people-will-never-change-its-not-your-call-podcast-45\/","title":{"rendered":"Motivating people to change -Podcast 45"},"content":{"rendered":"<div class=\"powerpress_player\" id=\"powerpress_player_1908\"><!--[if lt IE 9]><script>document.createElement('audio');<\/script><![endif]-->\n<audio class=\"wp-audio-shortcode\" id=\"audio-4377-1\" preload=\"none\" style=\"width: 100%;\" controls=\"controls\"><source type=\"audio\/mpeg\" src=\"http:\/\/traffic.libsyn.com\/paththreellc\/045SkirtStrategiesPodcast.mp3?_=1\" \/><a href=\"http:\/\/traffic.libsyn.com\/paththreellc\/045SkirtStrategiesPodcast.mp3\">http:\/\/traffic.libsyn.com\/paththreellc\/045SkirtStrategiesPodcast.mp3<\/a><\/audio><\/div><p class=\"powerpress_links powerpress_links_mp3\" style=\"margin-bottom: 1px !important;\">Podcast: <a href=\"http:\/\/traffic.libsyn.com\/paththreellc\/045SkirtStrategiesPodcast.mp3\" class=\"powerpress_link_d\" title=\"Download\" rel=\"nofollow\" download=\"045SkirtStrategiesPodcast.mp3\">Download<\/a><\/p>\n<p><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"alignleft size-medium wp-image-4379\" src=\"http:\/\/skirtstrategies.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2015\/01\/bigstock-Rows-Of-Butterfly-Cocoons-47629327-300x199.jpg\" alt=\"bigstock-Rows-Of-Butterfly-Cocoons-47629327\" width=\"300\" height=\"199\" srcset=\"https:\/\/www.skirtstrategies.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2015\/01\/bigstock-Rows-Of-Butterfly-Cocoons-47629327-300x199.jpg 300w, https:\/\/www.skirtstrategies.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2015\/01\/bigstock-Rows-Of-Butterfly-Cocoons-47629327-1024x680.jpg 1024w, https:\/\/www.skirtstrategies.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2015\/01\/bigstock-Rows-Of-Butterfly-Cocoons-47629327.jpg 1600w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 300px) 100vw, 300px\" \/><\/p>\n<p><strong>Katie and Carol get a visit from the undercover man, a behavioral specialist who <\/strong><strong>gives advice in motivating people to change <\/strong><strong>in this episode of the podcast. This topic comes from their book\u00a0 <em><a title=\"What about the book?\" href=\"http:\/\/skirtstrategies.com\/about-skirts\/book\/\" target=\"_blank\">Skirt Strategies: 249 Success Tips<\/a><\/em><em><a title=\"What about the book?\" href=\"http:\/\/skirtstrategies.com\/about-skirts\/book\/\" target=\"_blank\"> for Women in Leadership<\/a>.<\/em>\u00a0 Tip 44 is: Do not accept the notion that some people will never change. It\u2019s not your call.<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>As soon as you decide to give up on someone, all else is bleak. Especially for that person.<\/p>\n<p>This is more of a message to you about how you approach those that may look unpromising rather than accepting the fact that all people can change. Do not expect monumental growth in everyone, but don\u2019t toss him to the wolves if you do not see potential. There may be situational factors that hold him back. There may be deeply-seeded barriers to productivity of which you are unaware.<\/p>\n<p>Perhaps you make a pact with yourself that you give a person three attempts at redirection before you make a more drastic move.<\/p>\n<p>At some point, there will be individuals that do not fit on your team. Some will take invested time and energy to develop, without any guaranteed outcome. If you choose not to make that investment, simply acknowledge that he belongs somewhere else. Do not conclude that he will never change.<\/p>\n<p>That\u2019s not your call.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><!--more--><\/p>\n<p><strong>PODCAST TRANSCRIPTION<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Hello and welcome to the <em>Skirt Strategies<\/em> podcast, the podcast for tips and techniques you can use to increase your confidence and project a powerful image to get the job with a client, the raise or the promotion you deserve.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Katie: We\u2019re back again, talking about more things that can help women. Women who are looking for better self-management, better leadership, making a better impact in the working world around them and in the personal world as well, right?<\/p>\n<p>Carol: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>Katie: So Katie here.<\/p>\n<p>Carol: Carol here.<\/p>\n<p>Katie: Here\u2019s the next tip that we\u2019re sharing with you. As you might know that Carol and I are delving into different areas of the book \u2013 our book <em><a href=\"http:\/\/skirtstrategies.com\/about-skirts\/book\/\" target=\"_blank\">Skirt Strategies: 249 Success Tips for Women in Leadership<\/a>.<\/em><\/p>\n<p>And we\u2019re going through several of them. The one that were on right now, that we want you to be a part of is <em>Tip Number 44 \u2013 Do not accept the notion that some people will never change. It\u2019s not your call.<\/em><\/p>\n<p>Carol: Now Katie, I know you had some thoughts when you wrote that. So what was your thought?<\/p>\n<p>Katie: When I wrote this, I was frustrated with people giving bottom-line decisions about how people could or could not contribute to the workplace.<\/p>\n<p>And in fact, many of us get so frustrated with others that we say, <em>\u201cArgh! That guy will never change. That woman will never change.\u201d<\/em><\/p>\n<p>And to me, that takes all of the perspective out of this woman or a person possibly being a contributing member of your team.<\/p>\n<p>Carol: Right.<\/p>\n<p>Katie: I wanted people to think about what somebody does contribute and whether they change or not, can they still contribute?<\/p>\n<p>Carol: And is that contribution worthy of maybe a positive thought or two?<\/p>\n<p>Katie: Exactly. The other piece about it is that \u2013 if they\u2019re not going to change, it\u2019s not your call.<\/p>\n<p>Just coming with the bottom-line decision that \u2013 <em>\u201cWell, that person is not going to change. Therefore, we can\u2019t do anything.\u201d<\/em> It\u2019s not your call.<\/p>\n<p>You may have to (as an effective leader) continue over and over and over again to try to get somebody to do something differently.<\/p>\n<p>Carol: You might. And if they\u2019re not going to change in a way that helps your team, is there some place you can put them\u2026<\/p>\n<p>Katie: Yes. The Government is very good at that.<\/p>\n<p>Carol: Yes, I bet they are because they never want to fire anybody. And sometimes you just have to let people go and say, <em>\u201cMaybe they\u00a0aren&#8217;t\u00a0going to change and be a great\u00a0part of my team, but they can be a great part of somebody\u2019s team.\u201d<\/em><\/p>\n<p>And when you let them go, you let them know. <em>\u201cYou\u2019re fabulous at certain things but that\u2019s not what we need here. Thank you very much.\u201d<\/em><\/p>\n<p>Katie: Well, you don\u2019t ever want to take away someone\u2019s integrity or their dignity.<\/p>\n<p>Carol: Yeah.<\/p>\n<p>Katie: You don\u2019t ever want to make a bottom-line decision that \u2013 <em>\u201cYou know what? You\u2019re not going to fit here and you never will. Therefore, we\u2019re moving you on.\u201d<\/em><\/p>\n<p>It might just be that \u2013 <em>\u201cThere\u2019s other opportunities that might be a better fit for you.\u201d <\/em>And you help drive them that direction and coach them out of their job.<\/p>\n<p>Carol: Or coach them back into their job.<\/p>\n<p>Really, I think that\u2019s what tip is about \u2013 is how do you take somebody that looks like they can\u2019t change and actually help them to change and be a better team member?<\/p>\n<p>Katie: Well, here\u2019s something that every leader needs to know. When you\u2019re trying to influence others to do a quote \u2013 what you need them to do in order to fit in to your workplace and be a contributing member to your mission.<\/p>\n<p>If you are not pushing all of the buttons\/providing all of the right resources and factors in the workplace, they might not be performing. It might be your fault.<\/p>\n<p>Carol: Yeah.<\/p>\n<p>Katie: So I tell leaders, <em>\u201cThink about what you are doing that is necessary. For instance, do you layout clearly what the mission is of the organization and how they fit in? Do they understand their roles?\u201d<\/em><\/p>\n<p>I know lots of people that don\u2019t have a clear definition of what their role is \u2013 or they don\u2019t have goals.<\/p>\n<p>Carol: Right.<\/p>\n<p>Katie: Wouldn&#8217;t you feel a little lost? And I could be spinning my wheels and look like I don\u2019t fit there \u2013 if somebody hadn&#8217;t really worked with me on that.<\/p>\n<p>Carol: True.<\/p>\n<p>Katie: All of your employees are not going to be mental giants and figure that out themselves.<\/p>\n<p>Carol: That\u2019s a good observation. That\u2019s true. They\u2019re not.<\/p>\n<p>So you really do have to just keep coaching them to do the right thing. And if it looks like they\u2019re not going to change, there are maybe\u2026<\/p>\n<p>Katie: There may be other things that going on. They need to have the resources, they need to have the training, they need to have the feedback that says, <em>\u201cYou\u2019re doing the right thing or the wrong thing or\u2026\u201d<\/em><\/p>\n<p>They need to have the motivation, but that\u2019s tricky. Because the lack of resources or the lack of training can sometimes come out as, <em>\u201cOh, they\u2019re not motivated. But they don\u2019t know where to start.\u201d<\/em> So it\u2019s looking like they\u2019re not.<\/p>\n<p>Again, I\u2019d be not motivated if somebody didn&#8217;t tell me how to go do something. So people\u2019s motivations can be very tricky. Can you motivate people?<\/p>\n<p>Carol: Right.<\/p>\n<p>Katie: Then last of all, they could be wrong for the job.<\/p>\n<p>Carol: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>Katie: If your mother died of lung cancer \u2013 you might not be the best employee for Philip Morris. That\u2019s an example of being in the wrong job.<\/p>\n<p>Carol: Right.<\/p>\n<p>Katie: Or if you\u2019re at home, taking care of an elderly parent (again, your mom comes back to the picture.)<\/p>\n<p>Carol: She\u2019s alive again!<\/p>\n<p>Katie: If you\u2019re having to take care of an elderly parent and you\u2019re very, very distracted with it, you might not be a very good employee.<\/p>\n<p>Carol: True. So look at what\u2019s happening in their lives and maybe find that out before you try to change their behavior because maybe they\u2019re distracted, right?<\/p>\n<p>Katie: Exactly. The whole behavioral thing is a little tricky. I don\u2019t know. You know? We should have a Behavioral Specialist sometime.<\/p>\n<p>Carol: Oh! You mean like an undercover man?<\/p>\n<p>Katie: I think it should be a man \u2013 and I think he should be a Behavioral Specialist.<\/p>\n<p>Carol: Well, let\u2019s see if we can do that.<\/p>\n<p>Katie: Welcome into the studio, undercover man.<\/p>\n<p>Undercover Man: I\u2019m glad to be here.<\/p>\n<p>Katie: Well, we\u2019re glad you\u2019re here too \u2013 because we need a little help into understanding into people\u2019s behaviors and their motivations.<\/p>\n<p>It\u2019s the tip that we\u2019re talking about here at <em>Skirt Strategies<\/em> (which we\u2019re glad you wore your skirt by the way.)<\/p>\n<p>Carol: Yes, thank you.<\/p>\n<p>Katie: The tip around understanding that people might not always be able to change.<\/p>\n<p>And maybe they can\u2019t. But even if they can\u2019t, we shouldn&#8217;t judge them for it. I don\u2019t know. What do you think?<\/p>\n<p>Undercover Man: Well, I&#8217;ve been listening to you two, talk. And it\u2019s been very entertaining. So thank you very much, so far.<\/p>\n<p>Carol: Thank you.<\/p>\n<p>Undercover Man: It remains to be seen if it continues that way. But my guess is \u2013 it will.<\/p>\n<p>One of the things that popped in my mind, when you mentioned the word motivation \u2013 is sort of to somewhat competing on ideas. But I don\u2019t think they\u2019re really competing. There\u2019s just a different way of coming about it.<\/p>\n<p>If I say I am motivated to run the Boston Marathon, what are you going to see me doing?<\/p>\n<p>Katie: Practicing and jogging.<\/p>\n<p>Undercover Man: Yes. So I\u2019ll be running. I\u2019ll be in training.<\/p>\n<p>Carol: Training. There you go.<\/p>\n<p>Undercover Man: If you don\u2019t see me training \u2013 and I\u2019m not training, then I guess I\u2019m not really motivated.<\/p>\n<p>So one way of looking at motivation \u2013 is that it is something that is inferred from behavior.<\/p>\n<p>Katie: Oh, that\u2019s good.<\/p>\n<p>Carol: Yeah. I can talk all day long about running a marathon. But unless I\u2019m actually doing something towards that, then I\u2019m obviously not motivated.<\/p>\n<p>Undercover Man: Well, it goes with the old saying, <em>\u201cAction speaks louder than words.\u201d<\/em><\/p>\n<p>Katie: And you don\u2019t have to be motivated in order to do something.<\/p>\n<p>Undercover Man: It helps. But motivation is also not something you have or you don\u2019t have \u2013 it\u2019s something that can be influenced.<\/p>\n<p>Carol: So that\u2019s what we\u2019re talking about here. <em>\u201cHow you do you influence somebody\u2019s motivation?\u201d<\/em><\/p>\n<p>Undercover Man: Well, there are a couple of ways of doing it.<\/p>\n<p>One is (and I use this sometimes with the other people with whom I work) if I really wanted somebody to start exercising. And I said, <em>\u201cI have $100 here. And you give me evidence and proof \u2013 like a videotape of you running on your treadmill. I\u2019ll give you this $100.\u201d <\/em>And a lot of times, people will say, <em>\u201cI\u2019d do that.\u201d<\/em><\/p>\n<p>Carol: Money is always motivational.<\/p>\n<p>Undercover Man: Well, I would disagree. It\u2019s not always motivational. Because there are other people who say, <em>\u201cNo. I\u2019m not going to do it.\u201d<\/em><\/p>\n<p>I have had people say, <em>\u201cNo. I\u2019m not going to do that.\u201d<\/em> And I said, <em>\u201cWhat about $1,000?\u201d<\/em><\/p>\n<p>Katie: Feeling a little better.<\/p>\n<p>Carol: Right.<\/p>\n<p>Undercover Man: <em>\u201cMaybe.\u201d \u201cWhat about $10,000?\u201d<\/em> And I have had people reject $10,000.<\/p>\n<p>Carol: Oh, wow! Well, they\u2019re probably being terribly realistic?<\/p>\n<p>Undercover Man: Yes. Because I preface it by saying, <em>\u201cThese\u00a0aren&#8217;t\u00a0really real. But play with me here, folks.\u201d<\/em><\/p>\n<p>Katie &amp; Carol: Right.<\/p>\n<p>Undercover Man: So when it drives on the point that motivation can be influenced for some people by external factors. Other times, it can be influenced by appealing to the individuals more internal motivation or internal locus of control.<\/p>\n<p>Carol: Interesting.<\/p>\n<p>Undercover Man: One of the ways I talk about that and deal with that \u2013 is through something called <em>\u201cMotivational Interviewing.\u201d<\/em><\/p>\n<p>Katie: What\u2019s that, undercover man?<\/p>\n<p>Undercover Man: I\u2019m glad you asked.<\/p>\n<p>Carol: Interesting.<\/p>\n<p>Undercover Man: <em>Motivational Interviewing<\/em> comes from some of the behavioral research on helping people with addictions.<\/p>\n<p>There\u2019s been a number of research that suggests that <em>\u201cthe strong intervention down your throat\u201d<\/em> kind of approach with substance abuse doesn\u2019t work.<\/p>\n<p>There are exceptions and it can work. But if you look at the research out there, it\u2019s not that effective \u2013 it\u2019s a confrontational approach.<\/p>\n<p>Motivational is more about gently leading the horse to the water to drink, versus pulling on as tight as you can.<\/p>\n<p>Katie: Okay. I get that.<\/p>\n<p>Carol: Okay. Now give me an example of a person that you\u2019re trying to motivate with that personal motivation.<\/p>\n<p>Undercover Man: Well, I\u2019ll try to make it business related. (Since that\u2019s some of what you women professionals are talking about.)<\/p>\n<p>If I were in a leadership position and I had an individual who is resistant to change. One of the things that I would do would be \u2013 to engage the individual in a conversation about what were the issues involved with that resistance.<\/p>\n<p>Katie: So you get them to think through it?<\/p>\n<p>Undercover Man: Exactly. And then I say, <em>\u201cIs there anything in it for you that would make this change in the policies and procedures in your workplace that\u2019s a bit more palatable?\u201d<\/em><\/p>\n<p>Get the individual engaged in the discussion. And hopefully, get him or her involved in coming up with ideas of why change would be beneficial to that person.<\/p>\n<p>Carol: So not just beneficial to the company or to the mission or vision, but specifically beneficial to that person.<\/p>\n<p>So just think about it. Maybe if you learned how to deal with customers better, we could actually move you into a position where you would lead a team or get in\u2026<\/p>\n<p>Katie: Get a discount on the products?<\/p>\n<p>Carol: Yeah. So I\u2019m trying to think because that\u2019s kind of monetarily motivating rather than an outside motivator.<\/p>\n<p>Katie: Be a part of it. Well, when we talk about motivation quite a bit, Carol, we talk about how being a part of a bigger thing, a bigger cost like the vision of an organization can be naturally motivational.<\/p>\n<p>And that\u2019s a message for the leaders to have a strategic planner \u2013 something that says, <em>\u201cWe\u2019re going somewhere.\u201d<\/em><\/p>\n<p>Because when you translate that to the employees, they look at that and they say, <em>\u201cI want to be a part of it.\u201d<\/em> And that becomes motivational.<\/p>\n<p>But that\u2019s what\u2019s in it for me \u2013 is I\u2019m guessing the way you\u2019re defining that.<\/p>\n<p>Undercover Man: Yes. There can be the intrinsic motivation, as well as the extrinsic motivation of \u2013 maybe you\u2019ll get a promotion and make more money or maybe you\u2019ll just get a raise because you exceeded expectations significantly.<\/p>\n<p>Katie: That\u2019s good.<\/p>\n<p>Carol: Yeah. But still, that\u2019s external and then the internal comes from the other.<\/p>\n<p>Undercover Man: Correct \u2013 from leading the person to reach the right conclusion, versus trying to jam it down his or her throat.<\/p>\n<p>Carol: Right. Okay. I like it.<\/p>\n<p>Katie: I like that. We should practice that.<\/p>\n<p>Carol: In real life?<\/p>\n<p>Katie: No. In a training.<\/p>\n<p>Carol: I actually had somebody (one of my staff) the other day and we were doing kind of a personality based assessment.<\/p>\n<p>She said, <em>\u201cWell, yeah that\u2019s me. I\u2019ll never change. I\u2019m setting my ways. I\u2019ll never change.\u201d<\/em><\/p>\n<p>And luckily, she has enough talent that that\u2019s okay. She\u2019s a little hard to get along with and we have some problems there, but it was kind of eye opening. I was like, <em>\u201cWhoa! What if you need to? What if you really needed to change?\u201d<\/em><\/p>\n<p>Katie: If she\u2019s saying she\u2019s not going to change, then it really is hopeless.<\/p>\n<p>Carol: Right.<\/p>\n<p>Undercover Man: I would disagree with that. Because sometimes, maybe you could setup a scenario where the person would be strongly encouraged to change with the advance warning that, <em>\u201cI know you\u2019re going to be uncomfortable with this, but we want you to try it anyway.\u201d<\/em><\/p>\n<p>Because one of the coaching principles I work with \u2013 is the idea of things that are unfamiliar or uncomfortable until they\u2019re more familiar.<\/p>\n<p>Katie: That\u2019s good, undercover man.<\/p>\n<p>Carol: We work with that too. Change is difficult, but\u2026<\/p>\n<p>Katie: If it feels uncomfortable, it probably means that you\u2019re stretching into a new area.<\/p>\n<p>Carol: Right.<\/p>\n<p>Undercover Man: Or something even more simple such as \u2013 \u201c<em>You haven\u2019t done it before.\u201d<\/em><\/p>\n<p>Katie: Yes. That\u2019s good. I like that. That might go on my Pinterest board of quotations.<\/p>\n<p>Carol: Yeah.<\/p>\n<p>Katie: And since the undercover man is anonymous, I\u2019m going to have to take it for my credit.<\/p>\n<p>Carol: That\u2019s true. It\u2019s all yours.<\/p>\n<p>Katie: That\u2019s the way we work here.<\/p>\n<p>Undercover Man: Just sign it, UM (Undercover Man).<\/p>\n<p>Katie: That\u2019s good. So that\u2019s very insightful with not only understanding what people\u2019s behaviors and motivations are. But also how we can tolerate them or understand that some people will always have the option to change, unless there\u2019s some sort of a personality disorder (or a psychopath of some sort.) And we do have those people in the workplace.<\/p>\n<p>Carol: Yes, we do.<\/p>\n<p>Katie: But none of them are in our <em>Skirt Strategies<\/em> tribe.<\/p>\n<p>Carol: No, but definitely we do have to deal with them in our workplace.<\/p>\n<p>Katie: We definitely do.<\/p>\n<p>Carol: And therefore, we should positively say something about that. Undercover man, what would you do if you have somebody that maybe has a personality disorder? (And I don\u2019t know. God, there are so many. And I\u2019m sure you\u2019d have to deal with them in different ways.) But maybe something mild that\u2026<\/p>\n<p>Katie: Typical.<\/p>\n<p>Carol: Yeah, or typical.<\/p>\n<p>Katie: Garden variety.<\/p>\n<p>Undercover Man: Well, there is a type of personality called \u2013 <em>\u201cThe Dependent Personality.\u201d<\/em><\/p>\n<p>That person typically would be hesitant to try new things. Unless here, she were gently pulled along, pushed along, let along to try new things.<\/p>\n<p>So it\u2019s coming from something within that individual, rather than the workplace. And it\u2019s not so much that I refuse to change, but it sort of scares me.<\/p>\n<p>Carol: It\u2019s uncomfortable. I\u2019ll tell you, I think that a lot of our support personnel are that personality.<\/p>\n<p>They are very comfortable being support. They are very comfortable being in the background. They are not comfortable taking that step out to do things different or change things or learn new things. They&#8217;ve got a modus operandi and it has worked for them to this point and that\u2019s all they\u2019re going to do.<\/p>\n<p>So you\u2019re right. Stepping them out of that may not be the most comfortable thing for them. But if you do it right, they can do it.<\/p>\n<p>Undercover Man: Yes. I think most people can. Especially if you prep them that this is going to be uncomfortable and you may not succeed right away with whatever the change efforts.<\/p>\n<p>Carol: Oh, that\u2019s good.<\/p>\n<p>Katie: That it\u2019s okay to fail?<\/p>\n<p>Undercover Man: It\u2019s okay not to succeed.<\/p>\n<p>Carol: Okay, right.<\/p>\n<p>Katie: Oh! That\u2019s a way of spinning that.<\/p>\n<p>Carol: There you go.<\/p>\n<p>Katie: So it occurs to me, undercover man \u2013 that you add this unique and valuable perspective of different viewpoint or different behavioral viewpoint, right?<\/p>\n<p>Undercover Man: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>Katie: We think, probably men and women are kind of the same in this tip where we say, <em>\u201cGive everyone a fair chance.\u201d<\/em> Some people say people will never change. Men aren&#8217;t really much different than women and that.<\/p>\n<p>Undercover Man: I think there\u2019s a lot of overlap in between the ways men and women look at things. But there are some differences as well.<\/p>\n<p>But I think in terms of change\u2026 In my experience, I haven\u2019t seen much difference between the way men and women look at the obstacles to change or wanting to change or I don\u2019t want to change.<\/p>\n<p>Carol: Right.<\/p>\n<p>Undercover Man: I&#8217;ve seen both genders do that.<\/p>\n<p>Katie: You&#8217;ve seen both genders be just as stubborn.<\/p>\n<p>Undercover Man: Yes, I have.<\/p>\n<p>Katie: Are you stubborn, undercover man?<\/p>\n<p>Undercover Man: I have been at times, yes.<\/p>\n<p>Katie: Okay. I just thought I heard you admit that. I\u2019m just kidding.<\/p>\n<p>Carol: On tape. I&#8217;ve got that now.<\/p>\n<p>Katie: No, he\u2019s not stubborn. I actually don\u2019t know who undercover man is because he\u2019s undercover.<\/p>\n<p>Carol: That\u2019s right. And he\u2019s in a dress.<\/p>\n<p>Katie: Oh, that\u2019s right. He\u2019s in a skirt.<\/p>\n<p>I will say that the whole reason that this tip was originally written was this view of \u2013 It wasn&#8217;t to give the perspective of \u2013 everything is so Pollyanna. I think you\u2019re never Polly Purebred\u2026 underdog.<\/p>\n<p>Carol: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>Katie: And Polly Purebred was so\u2026<\/p>\n<p>Carol: Yes. It was his girlfriend, right?<\/p>\n<p>Katie: Yes, and she was very pure. And she saw everything. And I think that\u2019s where the Pollyanna came. (I don\u2019t know. Maybe not.) But Polly Purebred.<\/p>\n<p>Everyone is so Pollyanna that they see things so pure. I\u2019m not meaning to say that everybody can change. But rather, it is we describe in the tip a little farther in the book \u2013 is that it\u2019s too easy to jump to a conclusion about, <em>\u201cOh, that person is stuck in the mud. Oh, that person is stubborn. Oh, they\u2019re never going to change.\u201d<\/em><\/p>\n<p><strong><em>\u00a0<\/em><\/strong><\/p>\n<p><strong>[MUSIC PLAYS]<\/strong><\/p>\n<p><em>\u00a0<\/em><\/p>\n<p>When as a leader, you have to keep trying to influence folks. You got to give it the old college try and maybe after a certain amount of time, you\u2019d be [Unintelligible][0:20:26.9] you redirect them. But you can\u2019t just jump to the conclusion of, <em>\u201cIt\u2019s not going to work.\u201d<\/em><\/p>\n<p>Carol: Yeah, and it\u2019s not black and white. There are many shades of grey here. Oh, damn! I wish I hadn&#8217;t brought that up.<\/p>\n<p>Katie: Oh, too bad.<\/p>\n<p>Carol: Sorry, undercover man. That will be for next time \u2013 <em>The Shades of Grey.<\/em><\/p>\n<p>Undercover Man: I\u2019ll be here waiting.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>We\u2019re so glad you joined us for this episode of the Skirt Strategies podcast. We\u2019d love to hear from you with questions or comments. Email us at <a href=\"mailto:info@skirtstrategies.com\">info@skirtstrategies.com<\/a> or interact with us on Facebook.<\/p>\n<p>Now more than ever, the world needs powerful, confident female leaders. And that\u2019s what we are.<\/p>\n<p><strong>\u00a0<\/strong><\/p>\n<p><strong>[END OF TRANSCRIPT]<\/strong><\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Katie and Carol get a visit from the undercover man, a behavioral specialist who gives advice in motivating people to change in this episode of the podcast. This topic comes from their book\u00a0 Skirt Strategies: 249 Success Tips for Women in Leadership.\u00a0 Tip 44 is: Do not accept the notion that some people will never [&hellip;]<\/p>\n<div class=\"powerpress_player\" id=\"powerpress_player_1909\"><audio class=\"wp-audio-shortcode\" id=\"audio-4377-2\" preload=\"none\" style=\"width: 100%;\" controls=\"controls\"><source type=\"audio\/mpeg\" src=\"http:\/\/traffic.libsyn.com\/paththreellc\/045SkirtStrategiesPodcast.mp3?_=2\" \/><a href=\"http:\/\/traffic.libsyn.com\/paththreellc\/045SkirtStrategiesPodcast.mp3\">http:\/\/traffic.libsyn.com\/paththreellc\/045SkirtStrategiesPodcast.mp3<\/a><\/audio><\/div><p class=\"powerpress_links powerpress_links_mp3\" style=\"margin-bottom: 1px !important;\">Podcast: <a href=\"http:\/\/traffic.libsyn.com\/paththreellc\/045SkirtStrategiesPodcast.mp3\" class=\"powerpress_link_d\" title=\"Download\" rel=\"nofollow\" download=\"045SkirtStrategiesPodcast.mp3\">Download<\/a><\/p>","protected":false},"author":4,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"_et_pb_use_builder":"","_et_pb_old_content":"","_et_gb_content_width":"","footnotes":""},"categories":[24],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-4377","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-podcast"],"yoast_head":"<!-- This site is optimized with the Yoast SEO plugin v24.0 - https:\/\/yoast.com\/wordpress\/plugins\/seo\/ -->\n<title>Motivating people to change -Podcast 45 - Skirt Strategies<\/title>\n<meta name=\"description\" content=\"Motivating people to change is not easy. Katie and Carol discuss &quot;how to&quot; with a behavioral psychologist, the undercover man.\" \/>\n<meta name=\"robots\" content=\"index, follow, max-snippet:-1, max-image-preview:large, max-video-preview:-1\" \/>\n<link rel=\"canonical\" href=\"https:\/\/www.skirtstrategies.com\/podcast\/do-not-accept-the-notion-that-some-people-will-never-change-its-not-your-call-podcast-45\/\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:locale\" content=\"en_US\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:type\" content=\"article\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:title\" content=\"Motivating people to change -Podcast 45 - Skirt Strategies\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:description\" content=\"Motivating people to change is not easy. Katie and Carol discuss &quot;how to&quot; with a behavioral psychologist, the undercover man.\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:url\" content=\"https:\/\/www.skirtstrategies.com\/podcast\/do-not-accept-the-notion-that-some-people-will-never-change-its-not-your-call-podcast-45\/\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:site_name\" content=\"Skirt Strategies\" \/>\n<meta property=\"article:published_time\" content=\"2015-01-05T03:41:22+00:00\" \/>\n<meta property=\"article:modified_time\" content=\"2015-04-21T01:40:28+00:00\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:image\" content=\"http:\/\/skirtstrategies.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2015\/01\/bigstock-Rows-Of-Butterfly-Cocoons-47629327-300x199.jpg\" \/>\n<meta name=\"author\" content=\"Carol\" \/>\n<meta name=\"twitter:label1\" content=\"Written by\" \/>\n\t<meta name=\"twitter:data1\" content=\"Carol\" \/>\n\t<meta name=\"twitter:label2\" content=\"Est. reading time\" \/>\n\t<meta name=\"twitter:data2\" content=\"19 minutes\" \/>\n<script type=\"application\/ld+json\" class=\"yoast-schema-graph\">{\"@context\":\"https:\/\/schema.org\",\"@graph\":[{\"@type\":\"WebPage\",\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.skirtstrategies.com\/podcast\/do-not-accept-the-notion-that-some-people-will-never-change-its-not-your-call-podcast-45\/\",\"url\":\"https:\/\/www.skirtstrategies.com\/podcast\/do-not-accept-the-notion-that-some-people-will-never-change-its-not-your-call-podcast-45\/\",\"name\":\"Motivating people to change -Podcast 45 - Skirt Strategies\",\"isPartOf\":{\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.skirtstrategies.com\/#website\"},\"primaryImageOfPage\":{\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.skirtstrategies.com\/podcast\/do-not-accept-the-notion-that-some-people-will-never-change-its-not-your-call-podcast-45\/#primaryimage\"},\"image\":{\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.skirtstrategies.com\/podcast\/do-not-accept-the-notion-that-some-people-will-never-change-its-not-your-call-podcast-45\/#primaryimage\"},\"thumbnailUrl\":\"http:\/\/skirtstrategies.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2015\/01\/bigstock-Rows-Of-Butterfly-Cocoons-47629327-300x199.jpg\",\"datePublished\":\"2015-01-05T03:41:22+00:00\",\"dateModified\":\"2015-04-21T01:40:28+00:00\",\"author\":{\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.skirtstrategies.com\/#\/schema\/person\/c09275ea628a172d40331430ad041778\"},\"description\":\"Motivating people to change is not easy. Katie and Carol discuss \\\"how to\\\" with a behavioral psychologist, the undercover man.\",\"breadcrumb\":{\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.skirtstrategies.com\/podcast\/do-not-accept-the-notion-that-some-people-will-never-change-its-not-your-call-podcast-45\/#breadcrumb\"},\"inLanguage\":\"en-US\",\"potentialAction\":[{\"@type\":\"ReadAction\",\"target\":[\"https:\/\/www.skirtstrategies.com\/podcast\/do-not-accept-the-notion-that-some-people-will-never-change-its-not-your-call-podcast-45\/\"]}]},{\"@type\":\"ImageObject\",\"inLanguage\":\"en-US\",\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.skirtstrategies.com\/podcast\/do-not-accept-the-notion-that-some-people-will-never-change-its-not-your-call-podcast-45\/#primaryimage\",\"url\":\"http:\/\/skirtstrategies.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2015\/01\/bigstock-Rows-Of-Butterfly-Cocoons-47629327-300x199.jpg\",\"contentUrl\":\"http:\/\/skirtstrategies.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2015\/01\/bigstock-Rows-Of-Butterfly-Cocoons-47629327-300x199.jpg\"},{\"@type\":\"BreadcrumbList\",\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.skirtstrategies.com\/podcast\/do-not-accept-the-notion-that-some-people-will-never-change-its-not-your-call-podcast-45\/#breadcrumb\",\"itemListElement\":[{\"@type\":\"ListItem\",\"position\":1,\"name\":\"Home\",\"item\":\"https:\/\/www.skirtstrategies.com\/\"},{\"@type\":\"ListItem\",\"position\":2,\"name\":\"Motivating people to change -Podcast 45\"}]},{\"@type\":\"WebSite\",\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.skirtstrategies.com\/#website\",\"url\":\"https:\/\/www.skirtstrategies.com\/\",\"name\":\"Skirt Strategies\",\"description\":\"Professional Training &amp; Encouragement for Women on the Go\",\"potentialAction\":[{\"@type\":\"SearchAction\",\"target\":{\"@type\":\"EntryPoint\",\"urlTemplate\":\"https:\/\/www.skirtstrategies.com\/?s={search_term_string}\"},\"query-input\":{\"@type\":\"PropertyValueSpecification\",\"valueRequired\":true,\"valueName\":\"search_term_string\"}}],\"inLanguage\":\"en-US\"},{\"@type\":\"Person\",\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.skirtstrategies.com\/#\/schema\/person\/c09275ea628a172d40331430ad041778\",\"name\":\"Carol\",\"image\":{\"@type\":\"ImageObject\",\"inLanguage\":\"en-US\",\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.skirtstrategies.com\/#\/schema\/person\/image\/\",\"url\":\"https:\/\/secure.gravatar.com\/avatar\/83b47e83b898a87bced84795115aaeb8?s=96&d=mm&r=g\",\"contentUrl\":\"https:\/\/secure.gravatar.com\/avatar\/83b47e83b898a87bced84795115aaeb8?s=96&d=mm&r=g\",\"caption\":\"Carol\"},\"url\":\"https:\/\/www.skirtstrategies.com\/author\/wdrangmeister\/\"}]}<\/script>\n<!-- \/ Yoast SEO plugin. -->","yoast_head_json":{"title":"Motivating people to change -Podcast 45 - Skirt Strategies","description":"Motivating people to change is not easy. Katie and Carol discuss \"how to\" with a behavioral psychologist, the undercover man.","robots":{"index":"index","follow":"follow","max-snippet":"max-snippet:-1","max-image-preview":"max-image-preview:large","max-video-preview":"max-video-preview:-1"},"canonical":"https:\/\/www.skirtstrategies.com\/podcast\/do-not-accept-the-notion-that-some-people-will-never-change-its-not-your-call-podcast-45\/","og_locale":"en_US","og_type":"article","og_title":"Motivating people to change -Podcast 45 - Skirt Strategies","og_description":"Motivating people to change is not easy. Katie and Carol discuss \"how to\" with a behavioral psychologist, the undercover man.","og_url":"https:\/\/www.skirtstrategies.com\/podcast\/do-not-accept-the-notion-that-some-people-will-never-change-its-not-your-call-podcast-45\/","og_site_name":"Skirt Strategies","article_published_time":"2015-01-05T03:41:22+00:00","article_modified_time":"2015-04-21T01:40:28+00:00","og_image":[{"url":"http:\/\/skirtstrategies.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2015\/01\/bigstock-Rows-Of-Butterfly-Cocoons-47629327-300x199.jpg","type":"","width":"","height":""}],"author":"Carol","twitter_misc":{"Written by":"Carol","Est. reading time":"19 minutes"},"schema":{"@context":"https:\/\/schema.org","@graph":[{"@type":"WebPage","@id":"https:\/\/www.skirtstrategies.com\/podcast\/do-not-accept-the-notion-that-some-people-will-never-change-its-not-your-call-podcast-45\/","url":"https:\/\/www.skirtstrategies.com\/podcast\/do-not-accept-the-notion-that-some-people-will-never-change-its-not-your-call-podcast-45\/","name":"Motivating people to change -Podcast 45 - Skirt Strategies","isPartOf":{"@id":"https:\/\/www.skirtstrategies.com\/#website"},"primaryImageOfPage":{"@id":"https:\/\/www.skirtstrategies.com\/podcast\/do-not-accept-the-notion-that-some-people-will-never-change-its-not-your-call-podcast-45\/#primaryimage"},"image":{"@id":"https:\/\/www.skirtstrategies.com\/podcast\/do-not-accept-the-notion-that-some-people-will-never-change-its-not-your-call-podcast-45\/#primaryimage"},"thumbnailUrl":"http:\/\/skirtstrategies.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2015\/01\/bigstock-Rows-Of-Butterfly-Cocoons-47629327-300x199.jpg","datePublished":"2015-01-05T03:41:22+00:00","dateModified":"2015-04-21T01:40:28+00:00","author":{"@id":"https:\/\/www.skirtstrategies.com\/#\/schema\/person\/c09275ea628a172d40331430ad041778"},"description":"Motivating people to change is not easy. Katie and Carol discuss \"how to\" with a behavioral psychologist, the undercover man.","breadcrumb":{"@id":"https:\/\/www.skirtstrategies.com\/podcast\/do-not-accept-the-notion-that-some-people-will-never-change-its-not-your-call-podcast-45\/#breadcrumb"},"inLanguage":"en-US","potentialAction":[{"@type":"ReadAction","target":["https:\/\/www.skirtstrategies.com\/podcast\/do-not-accept-the-notion-that-some-people-will-never-change-its-not-your-call-podcast-45\/"]}]},{"@type":"ImageObject","inLanguage":"en-US","@id":"https:\/\/www.skirtstrategies.com\/podcast\/do-not-accept-the-notion-that-some-people-will-never-change-its-not-your-call-podcast-45\/#primaryimage","url":"http:\/\/skirtstrategies.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2015\/01\/bigstock-Rows-Of-Butterfly-Cocoons-47629327-300x199.jpg","contentUrl":"http:\/\/skirtstrategies.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2015\/01\/bigstock-Rows-Of-Butterfly-Cocoons-47629327-300x199.jpg"},{"@type":"BreadcrumbList","@id":"https:\/\/www.skirtstrategies.com\/podcast\/do-not-accept-the-notion-that-some-people-will-never-change-its-not-your-call-podcast-45\/#breadcrumb","itemListElement":[{"@type":"ListItem","position":1,"name":"Home","item":"https:\/\/www.skirtstrategies.com\/"},{"@type":"ListItem","position":2,"name":"Motivating people to change -Podcast 45"}]},{"@type":"WebSite","@id":"https:\/\/www.skirtstrategies.com\/#website","url":"https:\/\/www.skirtstrategies.com\/","name":"Skirt Strategies","description":"Professional Training &amp; Encouragement for Women on the Go","potentialAction":[{"@type":"SearchAction","target":{"@type":"EntryPoint","urlTemplate":"https:\/\/www.skirtstrategies.com\/?s={search_term_string}"},"query-input":{"@type":"PropertyValueSpecification","valueRequired":true,"valueName":"search_term_string"}}],"inLanguage":"en-US"},{"@type":"Person","@id":"https:\/\/www.skirtstrategies.com\/#\/schema\/person\/c09275ea628a172d40331430ad041778","name":"Carol","image":{"@type":"ImageObject","inLanguage":"en-US","@id":"https:\/\/www.skirtstrategies.com\/#\/schema\/person\/image\/","url":"https:\/\/secure.gravatar.com\/avatar\/83b47e83b898a87bced84795115aaeb8?s=96&d=mm&r=g","contentUrl":"https:\/\/secure.gravatar.com\/avatar\/83b47e83b898a87bced84795115aaeb8?s=96&d=mm&r=g","caption":"Carol"},"url":"https:\/\/www.skirtstrategies.com\/author\/wdrangmeister\/"}]}},"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.skirtstrategies.com\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/4377","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.skirtstrategies.com\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.skirtstrategies.com\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.skirtstrategies.com\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/4"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.skirtstrategies.com\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=4377"}],"version-history":[{"count":18,"href":"https:\/\/www.skirtstrategies.com\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/4377\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":5239,"href":"https:\/\/www.skirtstrategies.com\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/4377\/revisions\/5239"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.skirtstrategies.com\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=4377"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.skirtstrategies.com\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=4377"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.skirtstrategies.com\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=4377"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}