Tough conversations are easy to avoid. Have the courage to make them happen<\/em>.<\/p>\nKatie: This is a tip that comes back over and over again in my life.<\/p>\n
Carol: Oh and in mine too. I love to avoid tough conversations.<\/p>\n
Katie: Well we\u2019ll talk about the value of avoiding at some point too but let\u2019s talk first about the value of having courage.<\/p>\n
I think that word courage gets right at it. You have to have a backbone.<\/p>\n
Carol: You do and unless you face some things head on, you\u2019re probably going to live your life under a rock.<\/p>\n
Katie: My stomach just growled at that. I don\u2019t know what that meant. It\u2019s talking to you in some way.<\/p>\n
A dreaded conversation is self-descriptive. You know what they are but it\u2019s that type of conversation that you avoid for some reason. Is there a fear at the core of it? Probably. What\u2019s the fear?<\/p>\n
Carol: Is it a fear that you\u2019re going to get too emotional? Is it a fear that the other person is going to get too emotional?<\/p>\n
Katie: So you think it could be emotion involved?<\/p>\n
Carol: Yes.<\/p>\n
Katie: What about losing the conversation? If you are kind of competitive?<\/p>\n
Carol: Are there winners and losers? Yeah. Well if you can think about it this way, just having the conversation is winning.<\/p>\n
Katie: Oh I like that.<\/p>\n
Carol: Don\u2019t you think because we know we\u2019re not having it because there is something inside that is making us not have it. That once you have it, you win.<\/p>\n
Katie: You can get over that hump of feeling like finally it\u2019s behind you be proud of yourself for doing it regardless.<\/p>\n
Maybe the way to overcome that is to be okay going into the conversation and coming out on the losing end. That sounds kind of counterintuitive because we want people to be courageous and feel like they are getting the right thing out of it but maybe ahead of time understanding that it might not be what you need as an outcome. Keeping your expectations wide open rather than, \u201cI don\u2019t want to have this conversation because here\u2019s where I stand. Here\u2019s what I think is right. I don\u2019t think I\u2019m going to win.\u201d You have to let go of that.<\/p>\n
Carol: Right and you have to be willing to figure out what the win-win is. So maybe if you go into that conversation not thinking, \u201cI\u2019m right. They are wrong, but I have to have this conversation telling them they are wrong.\u201d<\/p>\n
Maybe it\u2019s that, \u201cI feel that this is the right way to go. I sense that they are not going there with me. We need to have a conversation about how to proceed.\u201d<\/p>\n
Katie: And that could be the best way to set it up. Is, \u201cLet\u2019s have a conversation about how we go forward on this,\u201d rather than, \u201cLet\u2019s have a conversation about what happened wrong.\u201d That sounds like you are setting it up for failure.<\/p>\n
Carol: Failure.<\/p>\n
Katie: Yeah or win-lose.<\/p>\n
Carol: Right, rather than win-win. So if you can start up thinking about the conversation as though it\u2019s \u2013 you are going to come to a win-win from it. Now I want to say something.<\/p>\n
Katie coached me \u2013this is early on in our relationship, before we had started Skirt Strategies, Katie was my coach and I had to let somebody go and I don\u2019t know why. It was eating on me. I couldn\u2019t figure out how to get it done. I couldn\u2019t figure out the conversation that needed to happen.<\/p>\n
And Katie coached me through it and the beauty of it was that there was accountability. So I knew, even though it was me, I knew I had to do it, I told her that and she said, \u201cOkay, what\u2019s the conversation going to look like.\u201d So she made me outline it. I outlined the conversation. That made it a little easier to start. And it all worked out. I\u2019ve got to say, it gave me the courage by having somebody there coaching me through it, to get through it.<\/p>\n
Katie: So it worked out okay.<\/p>\n
Carol: It did, well I fired him and I\u2019ve fired people before so I don\u2019t know what the deal was. It was just a difficult situation.<\/p>\n
Katie: I would be the first to admit that I don\u2019t follow my own advice if it\u2019s something that is emotional. For example, conversations with my husband because you are so close to somebody like that and my sister, I would think sometimes maybe I\u2019m the same way with her. Maybe not to the degree as my husband because I live with him and he and I overlap in so much of our lives. I find that I will dread a conversation with him so I will avoid it.<\/p>\n
I know that has to do with emotion. If I get a little bit emoting in the conversation I stop thinking clearly. I hate that about myself, so I just avoid it.<\/p>\n
Carol: I stop thinking clearly and sometimes I get emotional to the point of teary and crying and especially in a business situation I do that as well and so I\u2019m very aware that that might happen and therefore I don\u2019t necessarily want to have that conversation so I want to avoid it for that reason.<\/p>\n
And so I\u2019ve got to make the choice and I think what you taught me in that coaching session was start the conversation by writing down at least how you are going to begin it. You may not know how the conversation is going to go for the rest of the conversation so you can\u2019t really write down everything but at least start the conversation with this one sentence.<\/p>\n
Katie: Let\u2019s make that our transition into some tips for how to deal with dreadedness.<\/p>\n
Carol: Okay let\u2019s do.<\/p>\n
Katie: Because that\u2019s a great first tip.<\/p>\n
Begin by writing down how you will initiate the conversation. Script it just a little bit. Practice it. Use words that you can memorize or even put in front of you. That might sound like– let\u2019s say you are having this conversation with Jerry, the guy you fired. Do you remember how you started out?<\/p>\n
Katie: So your scripting was probably something along the lines of, \u201cJerry we need to have a conversation about your performance. Will you spend a few minutes in my office please?\u201d<\/p>\n
Carol: Yeah and you\u2019re fired. And I think it was easy enough to get him in the office. It was more, \u201cI appreciate the work that you have done. Our budget doesn\u2019t allow for us to continue this work.\u201d<\/p>\n
Katie: Well that\u2019s the part that needs scripting more than anything. Not getting in the room, although that\u2019s important because you are setting the expectation for the conversation. But what\u2019s going to be your language around why you are letting him go or don\u2019t have budget or was it a performance issue, or we gave you chances, there is where some great scripting could come in.<\/p>\n
Carol: And in my former life when I was in restaurants and had these conversations more often, it was a disciplinary system where people had gone \u2013 they had done the three strikes and now they are sitting in my office and they know exactly where the conversation is going to go because we had the conversation at two strikes that your third one you know what\u2019s going to happen.<\/p>\n
So that was almost easier than this one which was kind of budgetary and it was also performance but I didn\u2019t necessarily need to tell him that it was about performance because I was letting him go. At that point you don\u2019t want to say that there are things that you could change about your performance and but I\u2019m firing you.<\/p>\n
Katie: So for the first tip, begin by writing down how you will initiate the conversation. Follow that on with a goal you would like to accomplish by having the conversation.<\/p>\n
Carol: So let\u2019s assume that I\u2019m not going to fire him. Maybe I\u2019m just going to discipline.<\/p>\n
Katie: So the dreaded conversation is having to discipline someone. Your goal in the conversation might sound like what?<\/p>\n
Carol: My goal would be to let them know what they have done. Let them know how I would like to see it corrected or actually ask them how they think they can correct it so that would be the second part of the conversation. How do you think you can correct this?<\/p>\n
Katie: Okay. I would even start with, \u201cJerry, I need to have a conversation with you about performance. My goal of interacting with you is to get us both to the same understanding of what performance has been in the past and how we are lay it out for the future.\u201d<\/p>\n
So you\u2019ve said now what the conversation is about before you even jump into it. That can help.<\/p>\n
The rest of it you might not be able to script so as you and I say, \u201cWomen up.\u201d Make the appointment to talk. Have the courage to talk.<\/p>\n
Carol: Just make the appointment because that\u2019s a forcing function. Katie loves forcing functions.<\/p>\n
Katie: Keep in mind that the right thing to do is often the most difficult thing to do. You know, do the right thing.<\/p>\n
Carol: Right.<\/p>\n
Katie: I\u2019ve certainly got to talk to this person. How am I going to do it? I don\u2019t know. Don\u2019t even think about it. Just make the appointment.<\/p>\n
Carol: So Katie and I are big fans of Susan Scott, who wrote the book, Fierce Conversations:<\/em> Achieving Success at Work and in Life One Conversation at a Time. <\/em><\/p>\nShe goes on, one of the things I want to talk about is she has a set of ground rules and she calls them mineral rights. One of the greatest gifts we can give another is a purity of our attention. To mine for greater clarity, improved understanding and impetus for change, ask your partner to do the following and listen carefully to the responses. So:<\/p>\n
Step one: Identify your most pressing issue.<\/p>\n
Step two: Clarify that issue.<\/p>\n
Step three: Determine the current impact.<\/p>\n
Step four: Determine the future implications.<\/p>\n
Step five: Examine your personal contribution to this issue.<\/p>\n
Step six: Describe the ideal outcome.<\/p>\n
Step seven: Commit to action.<\/p>\n
Katie: Amen sister. That\u2019s from Fierce Conversations<\/em>, we give her credit for that, Susan Scott.<\/p>\nCarol: This is in her appendix. She always writes about it. It\u2019s called mineral rights.<\/p>\n
This is all for you. You need to clarify the issue for yourself before you go in to talk to somebody else about it. You need to determine the impact. Is this something that is really impacting what\u2019s happening in your life? If it is and you feel like you\u2019ve got to have that conversation, than have the conversation.<\/p>\n
If you look at it and determine it\u2019s not really creating that much impact, then the next step is to determine if there is going to be future implications. If there are than you still need to deal with it. If there aren\u2019t, maybe not.<\/p>\n
And do look at your personal contribution to the issue.<\/p>\n
Katie: What in other words, what do you mean by personal contribution?<\/p>\n
Carol: What is it that you are adding or piling on possibly to this issue? Is it all your thinking that\u2019s creating the issue, that is making bigger than it needing to be? Or do you have a contribution?<\/p>\n
Katie: Are you kind of messing it up? Okay so I\u2019m in the middle of the situation where I didn\u2019t like something that was happening on an interaction that I was having with a group of people. Let\u2019s just say it was some co-workers and I\u2019m a little bit reactive sometimes and I know that. I didn\u2019t like the way a decision was made and I tried to bury it. Well Katie is expressive. Things don\u2019t get buried. If you poke at her just a little bit something comes to the surface.<\/p>\n
Carol: That\u2019s true.<\/p>\n
Katie: So I thought no, it\u2019s not that big a deal. I\u2019m not going to really deal with it but I thought a decision had been somewhat unfair. I\u2019m not going to give it power and I maybe could have been seen \u2013 I was victimizing myself just a little bit so I decided to let it go. But evidently at some level I really did not let it go or I did not have enough therapeutic sessions with my husband to get it out.<\/p>\n
So we were all in a situation where we were standing around and something triggered me feeling like I might retort out loud. So I kind of said something offhandedly like– we all know when someone quips. \u201cWell like the last time that happened\u2026\u201d that sort of thing.<\/p>\n
One of the other people picked up on it. So she tried to engage me in bringing it out, which was for her perspective.<\/p>\n
Carol: In taking about it right?<\/p>\n
Katie: Yeah. Now this happened through a series of texts which I think a lot of communications happen through texts. Your first reaction might be oh that sounds bad but actually communicating through text and email can be a very at-arms-length\/safe space way of putting something out without getting caught in the emotion because you can let it sit. Go back and read it later. It\u2019s not like on the fly when you are face-to-face and you have to be on your toes defending yourself or staying logical or even keeled.<\/p>\n
Carol: But you\u2019ve got to be careful how you are interpreting what somebody else is writing because if they miss a comma it\u2019s a different sentence. And especially in a text, you are not always using your correct grammar.<\/p>\n
Katie: Exactly.<\/p>\n
Carol: So you do you have to be careful about that.<\/p>\n
Katie: Well and in that case my goal was not to engage. So here\u2019s Susan Scott, what she is really saying, how much did you pile on? Well I think my little quip added to the pile I was so proud of myself for rising above it and then I had the let a little quip out. So I take responsibility for that, which brought it right back to the surface because she picked up on it and she thought okay, something\u2019s not right with Katie. Let me try to get it out of her.<\/p>\n
So in the series of texts I didn\u2019t want to engage. I thought, here\u2019s an option for not engaging, I felt like I was not going to get anything out of it. I know the way that she argues or communicates and I don\u2019t think she would ever be an open listener in an empathetic way.<\/p>\n
Carol: So there was no win-win.<\/p>\n
Katie: She has no empathy in her body. It\u2019s not really okay that that\u2019s way, but I know that that\u2019s the way she is and so if I\u2019m going to interact with her, I need to know that don\u2019t expect empathy Katie. So why bring something up if you are not going to get someone listening to your point of view?<\/p>\n
So I wanted to backtrack. I think we\u2019ve all been in this situation where we got into something. We kind of started a fierce conversation and then we realized because maybe we didn\u2019t take some of Susan Scott\u2019s advice, we realized I wish I had not brought it up actually.<\/p>\n
Carol: Right.<\/p>\n
Katie: So now I\u2019m in the position of saying, \u201cYou know what, let\u2019s just drop it.\u201d I want to rise above it. There are times when you don\u2019t want to engage in those dreaded conversations. And one of them would be knowing the personalities involved, is it just not worth it?<\/p>\n
Another might be, is that person a high level of authority?<\/p>\n
Carol: That you are not going to win an argument with?<\/p>\n
Katie: Or it\u2019s kind of inappropriate because I can think about somebody that I\u2019ve worked with that was at a high level and powerful and this man was not a good communicator. I think if he had said to me, \u201cKatie come in and coach me.\u201d And he kind of started that route and we talked about a book together on emotional intelligence that I think he could have really used.<\/p>\n
But beyond that, he had to have some skin in the game and I just never saw it from him. And he was high enough of a level that I couldn\u2019t sit down with him over the beer and say, \u201cYou know what? I\u2019ve got some great ideas for you.\u201d He probably just would have looked at me like, \u201cDo you know what my day is like? Do you know how much burden I have on my plate?\u201d<\/p>\n
I could have talked to him about it but it really needed to appropriate come from him. So that was one where I backed off as well.<\/p>\n
Carol: I guess we have to say that there are some conversations that you can avoid but there are also some that you can\u2019t and shouldn\u2019t avoid. How do you decide which is which?<\/p>\n
I think maybe looking at the impact. So really looking at, is this really impacting my work? Is this impacting somebody\u2019s work? Is this impacting our mission and where we live? It\u2019s interesting. I think I mentioned to you that I had somebody come in my office complaining about another employee and was very emotional.<\/p>\n
\u201cI just hate that person. I can\u2019t stand that person. I don\u2019t want to work with her anymore. I want her out.\u201d<\/p>\n
It was always just stuff that I needed to listen to and I listened to it. I said, \u201cOkay I understand that you don\u2019t like this person but you have to live with this person and you have to work with this person. You have to do it on a daily basis. So we need to figure out how we\u2019re going to come to an accommodation that you can live with, she can live with, and I can live with because that does affect the mission.\u201d<\/p>\n
So the minute it starts impacting what we\u2019re doing, we have to deal with it. That\u2019s the fierce conversation and that\u2019s the reason behind the fierce conversation is when it starts impacting what you are doing. When it starts impacting the mission then you have the conversation.<\/p>\n
Katie: Have you thought a bit about the impact of emotion on the issue at hand and where does the emotion start to settle down to where it\u2019s better later to address? So almost any dreaded conversation that I have dreaded because there is some level of emotion that I have with it.<\/p>\n
If I wait a couple days can I see more clearly through it? If I wait even longer, and now it seems like I\u2019m really procrastinating \u2013<\/p>\n
Carol: Well yeah there is an avoidance \u2013<\/p>\n
Katie: Now it\u2019s I\u2019ve gotten over it. So I\u2019m thinking about this other situation where I decided now at some point it just a little easier day-to-day, now I\u2019ve gotten over what happened what was unfair that I felt I was the victim of. When it was fresh, I don\u2019t think I could have talked through it. But now that it\u2019s a few weeks old I could talk through it if I had to and it\u2019s almost a non-issue. So it was an issue because it was emotionally touchy.<\/p>\n
Carol: That\u2019s what we talk about. Don\u2019t have the conversation when you are reactionary. Don\u2019t get defensive. Do take the time in between the initial emotional issue before you try to have that fierce conversation because you have to be in your right mind to do it.<\/p>\n
Katie: I\u2019m thinking there is actually a couple of different levels of that emotion is my point with this. There is the initiate reactiveness, where you are spun up just a little bit. Then there is the I\u2019m spun down but it\u2019s still fresh. So if you poke at it a little bit I might spin up again real quick. That\u2019s is phase two. Then phase three is, it\u2019s enough in the past that I can talk about it without getting spun up. And often that phase three, it\u2019s so far in the past new I almost don\u2019t even want to bring it up or it\u2019s too late.<\/p>\n
Carol: Because you missed the opportunity.<\/p>\n
Katie: That\u2019s a dilemma.<\/p>\n
Carol: Yeah it is to a certain degree, but then again, if you go back, how much time are you spending in between there? Is it months that people have to feel on eggshells walking around you because of some emotional issue that\u2019s going on in the office or is it days? If it is days maybe that can happen. If it is months that can\u2019t happen. People can\u2019t be on that emotional rollercoaster not knowing how you\u2019re \u2013 especially if you are the boss, but even if you are not, they can\u2019t. You can\u2019t leave people hanging out there emotionally.<\/p>\n
Katie: One of the things I love to refer to is the conversation behind the conversation. This speaks to \u2013 we\u2019ve got a blog on the website called communicating clearly in meetings, the real conversation. I use meetings as an example because people are often sitting around a table and you can get the feeling of people sending non-verbal messages. And so we give you a little bit of an approach for that, some tips, because you\u2019ve got to have in a meeting the courage to discuss a real issue. Now it doesn\u2019t have to occur right there in the meeting.<\/p>\n
For example, you are sitting around a table. You are making a decision as a group or you are reviewing a status of something, whatever your typical meeting is. Are there some behaviors that you are not seeing people come right out and as Susan Scott would say, having those real conversations, having the fierce conversation but they are not real. That\u2019s the term she uses but that\u2019s because people are masking stuff. They are burying the way they really think because they are trying to think overly diplomatic.<\/p>\n
Carol: I was in one of those the other day. Oh I\u2019ve got to tell you because this guy was so funny. He said, \u201cI\u2019m sensing there\u2019s a skunk in the room.\u201d You heard the elephant in the room? He\u2019s like, \u201cI feel like it\u2019s a dead skunk and I\u2019m just going to put this skunk on the table and somebody needs to define it.\u201d I know exactly what he was talking about and I knew that there was some defensiveness going on for no good reason and for an unknown reason.<\/p>\n
Katie: Was the skunk the defensiveness?<\/p>\n
Carol: Yes.<\/p>\n
Katie: And did you sense that he was calling it right?<\/p>\n
Carol: He was calling it right and he was like, \u201cI don\u2019t get where this is going? We\u2019ve had these conversations in other places and it didn\u2019t go this way. It just feels really something. \u201cI\u2019m going to put this skunk on the table.\u201d It was funny. It was good. He was going on and on.<\/p>\n
I said, \u201cHere. I will define the skunk for you. Here it is. You guys got defensive when we brought up something and we don\u2019t know why. Nobody knows why that defensiveness came out.\u201d So then we talked about it.<\/p>\n
Katie: I like that you can name it. That\u2019s really powerful.<\/p>\n
Carol: And it was powerful for him to just say there was a skunk in the room. That was nice.<\/p>\n
Katie: Somebody said that to me after a meeting I was in recently. It was a leadership team. Somebody came up afterwards and said, \u201cYou know, did you sense that there was an elephant in the room.\u201d<\/p>\n
Of course I said, \u201cNo what was it?\u201d And she said what it was and it happened to be somebody on the staff that was not getting her job done and this person said, \u201cWell everybody thinks \u2013\u201c and I was like, \u201cI don\u2019t know if it was just you that thinks that because I don\u2019t know.\u201d<\/p>\n
Carol: Nobody brought it up in the meeting.<\/p>\n
Katie: Nobody brought it up. Partially the reason that happens is because people don\u2019t feel like they have the diplomacy or it\u2019s not appropriate. I work with clients all the time on how to bring something out that\u2019s observing vs. inferring. It should be a safe place. A meeting should be a safe place to be able to say, \u201cI just observed this.\u201d Or \u201cHere\u2019s what happening.\u201d Somebody\u2019s behavior caused this impact. There\u2019s an assumption that they didn\u2019t intend it that way but we\u2019re still getting this impact. That makes it worthy of talking about. This is an impact that we are dealing with. That\u2019s not throwing somebody under the bus. It\u2019s talking about how people are interacting and how to make it better.<\/p>\n
Carol: Right I\u2019m feeling something can somebody please tell me what I\u2019m feeling here which I thought for a man that was very emotionally intelligent and instinctive. He was using his intuition going, there\u2019s something wrong in this room. And I had been feeling it interestingly. We had lined up in this room women on one side, men on the other.<\/p>\n
Katie: Unknowingly?<\/p>\n
Carol: Yeah pretty much unknowingly. I was leaning over to some of the women. We were having a separate conversation which I know you say a really wrong in meetings.<\/p>\n
Katie: It is. A side bar?<\/p>\n
Carol: Yeah lots of side bars going on. They were going on and on and it wasn\u2019t us against them. It was not the men against the women. It was something else. It was a different dynamic but the women were all sensing it. We were totally sensing it so for him to put it out there was really intuitive.<\/p>\n
Katie: My husband is incredibly intuitive. In fact so much so that I think sometimes he sees things that aren\u2019t there.<\/p>\n
Carol: There\u2019s a ghost.<\/p>\n
Katie: He\u2019ll say, \u201cDon\u2019t you think that so and so was doing this?\u201d I\u2019ll be like, \u201cNo I don\u2019t think so. Either that you are really picking up on something that I was not into at all.\u201d<\/p>\n
That blog that I was referring to back on the website, when you do hear that there is a conversation behind the conversation, try this. Listen at three levels for the real conversation.<\/p>\n
What intent do you hear? What feelings do you hear? What content do you hear? This is excerpted from Fierce Conversations<\/em> as well.<\/p>\nThat blog by the way, if you look on our website \u2013<\/p>\n
Carol: We\u2019ll link to it from this podcast.<\/p>\n
Katie: Communicating clearly in meetings.<\/p>\n
The second thing is to acknowledge your observation like that man did. Various issues could be at play here. I\u2019ll put it into some words here, some examples of words that work well:<\/p>\n
Assignments are not getting completed between meetings. I\u2019ve worked on groups before where assignments weren\u2019t getting done and someone just needed to call it on the carpet. Just say that. Assignments aren\u2019t getting done. That\u2019s not a personal thing. That\u2019s not throwing somebody under the bus. That\u2019s stating a fact. Assignments aren\u2019t getting done.<\/p>\n
Theresa doesn\u2019t understand what her tasking is.<\/p>\n
Carol: That\u2019s a little pointed if Theresa thinks she does.<\/p>\n
Katie: If she\u2019s in the room or not I guess.<\/p>\n
The group does not seem bought in to the new method if you are sensing pushback. Often that\u2019s a nonverbal or people dragging their feet or people having side bars.<\/p>\n
Carol: Or not doing their assignments.<\/p>\n
Katie: Or not doing their assignments.<\/p>\n
I feel a discomfort in the room about that decision. A great thing to say. And here\u2019s the last example.<\/p>\n
Many people look confused over this last discussion. Many people look confused.<\/p>\n
Carol: Now I do that a lot in meetings. When I sense that there are people in the meeting that are not understanding and I tend to sense it. I say it for myself, \u201cI don\u2019t understand that. Can you please clarify.\u201d What is it that you are trying to bring into this room? And most of the people in the room are going, \u201cThank you Carol, because I didn\u2019t understand it either but I was afraid to bring it up.\u201d<\/p>\n
Katie: On behalf of all the confused people around the table, I would like to ask a clarifying question.<\/p>\n
Carol: And then the other one, let\u2019s not forget is I\u2019m going to put a skunk on the table.<\/p>\n
Katie: I love that. That really hits home to me because we\u2019ve had a skunk in the neighborhood this summer. And I sleep with my windows open so \u2013<\/p>\n
The last piece on that, what to do about the conversation behind the conversation is to ask an open question:<\/p>\n
What\u2019s the root issue here? What would be some ways to eliminate that lack of understanding? Is that the way you all see it also? Can someone articulate what is not working well? I like that one. There\u2019s often somebody around the table that\u2019s good at seeing those sorts of things if it\u2019s not you.<\/p>\n
Last option for an open question, what steps do we need to revisit for clarity? I love questions. That\u2019s one of my favorite leadership techniques. It\u2019s not feeling like I have to have all the answers but bringing in others by laying out a question. It does so much for you. It brings them into the conversation, makes them think for themselves, takes you off the hook, keeps you from dominating the conversation. It does so many things.<\/p>\n
Carol: That\u2019s nice. And that\u2019s a way to get through a fierce conversation too is asking questions.<\/p>\n
Katie: Tough conversations are easy to avoid. Have the courage to make them happen. We\u2019ve given you some ideas for dreadedness \u2013 that\u2019s a word that Carol and I have coined. Please feel free to put it on Wikipedia with credential to us.<\/p>\n
<\/p>\n
(Music plays)<\/p>\n
That\u2019s it for this episode of the Skirt Strategies podcast. Thank you for joining us and please be sure to leave a question or comment at Skirtstrategies.com. Remember that success comes when you lead using your natural female strengths.<\/p>\n
[end of transcript]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"
Runtime: 32 Minutes. Katie and Carol talk about Tip 33 from their book\u00a0 Skirt Strategies: 249 Success Tips for Women in Leadership. Tip Number 33. Tough conversations are easy to avoid. Have the courage to make them happen. The \u201cdreaded conversation\u201d takes guts and the discomfort is usually worth the outcome. To make it happen […]<\/p>\n
http:\/\/traffic.libsyn.com\/paththreellc\/035SkirtStrategiesPodcast.mp3<\/a><\/audio><\/div>Podcast: Download<\/a><\/p>","protected":false},"author":4,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"_et_pb_use_builder":"","_et_pb_old_content":"","_et_gb_content_width":"","footnotes":""},"categories":[24],"tags":[125,124,123],"class_list":["post-3648","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-podcast","tag-bravery-in-communications","tag-courage","tag-dreaded-conversations"],"yoast_head":"\nHave Courage for the Tough Conversations<\/title>\n<meta name=\"description\" content=\"When should you push through and get up the courage to have a dreaded conversation with someone? Here are the tips for starting tough conversations.\" \/>\n<meta name=\"robots\" content=\"index, follow, max-snippet:-1, max-image-preview:large, max-video-preview:-1\" \/>\n<link rel=\"canonical\" href=\"https:\/\/www.skirtstrategies.com\/podcast\/have-the-courage-to-have-tough-conversations-podcast-35\/\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:locale\" content=\"en_US\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:type\" content=\"article\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:title\" content=\"Have Courage for the Tough Conversations\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:description\" content=\"When should you push through and get up the courage to have a dreaded conversation with someone? Here are the tips for starting tough conversations.\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:url\" content=\"https:\/\/www.skirtstrategies.com\/podcast\/have-the-courage-to-have-tough-conversations-podcast-35\/\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:site_name\" content=\"Skirt Strategies\" \/>\n<meta property=\"article:published_time\" content=\"2014-07-21T00:32:09+00:00\" \/>\n<meta property=\"article:modified_time\" content=\"2015-02-01T04:52:47+00:00\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:image\" content=\"http:\/\/skirtstrategies.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2014\/07\/bigstock-Worried-businesswomen-working-49011542-300x200.jpg\" \/>\n<meta name=\"author\" content=\"Carol\" \/>\n<meta name=\"twitter:label1\" content=\"Written by\" \/>\n\t<meta name=\"twitter:data1\" content=\"Carol\" \/>\n\t<meta name=\"twitter:label2\" content=\"Est. reading time\" \/>\n\t<meta name=\"twitter:data2\" content=\"28 minutes\" \/>\n<script type=\"application\/ld+json\" class=\"yoast-schema-graph\">{\"@context\":\"https:\/\/schema.org\",\"@graph\":[{\"@type\":\"WebPage\",\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.skirtstrategies.com\/podcast\/have-the-courage-to-have-tough-conversations-podcast-35\/\",\"url\":\"https:\/\/www.skirtstrategies.com\/podcast\/have-the-courage-to-have-tough-conversations-podcast-35\/\",\"name\":\"Have Courage for the Tough Conversations\",\"isPartOf\":{\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.skirtstrategies.com\/#website\"},\"primaryImageOfPage\":{\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.skirtstrategies.com\/podcast\/have-the-courage-to-have-tough-conversations-podcast-35\/#primaryimage\"},\"image\":{\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.skirtstrategies.com\/podcast\/have-the-courage-to-have-tough-conversations-podcast-35\/#primaryimage\"},\"thumbnailUrl\":\"http:\/\/skirtstrategies.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2014\/07\/bigstock-Worried-businesswomen-working-49011542-300x200.jpg\",\"datePublished\":\"2014-07-21T00:32:09+00:00\",\"dateModified\":\"2015-02-01T04:52:47+00:00\",\"author\":{\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.skirtstrategies.com\/#\/schema\/person\/c09275ea628a172d40331430ad041778\"},\"description\":\"When should you push through and get up the courage to have a dreaded conversation with someone? 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