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In this podcast, Katie and Carol discuss three tips from their book Skirt Strategies: 249 Success Tips for Women in Leadership.
Tip 51: Spend a little time each day wandering among your employees.
Tip 52: Judge your workplace by the number of smiles and the degree of laughter.
Tip 53: Always show pleasure at the success of others. Find a fun, creative and tangible way to recognize employees for a job well-done. Even gold stars – yes like the ones you got in 2nd Grade – make people feel good about an accomplishment. Think this is silly? Just wait until you see them compete over who has more stars.
PODCAST TRANSCRIPTION
Hello and welcome to the Skirt Strategies podcast! The podcast for tips and techniques you can use to increase your confidence and project a powerful image to get the job with a client, the raise or the promotion you deserve.
Katie: In this installment of the podcast, it’s Katie again.
Carol: And Carol. Don’t forget me!
Katie: I was wanting you to jump in as you did.
Carol: Alright.
Katie: And I like the way that we’re going today about positive things. If you’re down in the doldrums or if you’re looking for something that will snazz up your life, look no further than the Skirt Strategies podcast.
Carol: We’re here for you!
Katie: These three tips come from our book. We’re putting three of them together. Sometimes we coagulate them. And these three – I know it’s a funny thing.
Carol: Ha-ha-ha!
Katie: And these three all have to do with the same thing. Carol, why don’t you read these three tips and then we’re going to talk about them and how they apply to you?
Carol: Alright.
- Tip 51: Spend a little time each day wandering among your employees.
- Tip 52: Judge your workplace by the number of smiles and degree of laughter.
- Tip 53: Always show pleasure at the success of others.
Katie: I like most about these – how they get your mentality in a positive point of view, positive perspective.
Carol: Uh-hmm.
Katie: Would you say your workplace is a positive place to be?
Carol: Yeah.
Katie: Is yours, Carol?
Carol: It is. I would say so. And I do listen for the laughter which is interesting.
Katie: Fantastic!
Carol: Yeah. When I hear the laughter, it always just gives me that inner warmth that I’m like – “Yes! People are here and they’re enjoying what they’re doing and we’re doing it right.”
Katie: It’s an indication that they clearly don’t see you as Attila the Hun.
Carol: Ha-ha-ha!
Katie: Because if they did, they wouldn’t feel comfortable laughing.
Carol: Right.
Katie: It’s a nice indicator.
Carol: Yeah. And it doesn’t feel like they’re laughing behind my back. You know?
Katie: I know. I have the benefit of being in a consulting business where I pop in and out of a lot of different workplaces so all have different feels.
Carol: Sure.
Katie: I can pick up on it quite quickly.
Carol: Uh-hmm.
Katie: And a lot of our followers – for those of you that have taken the assessment to find out what your intuition is for your leadership style. And if you haven’t, it’s at skirtstrategies.com/assessment.
Carol: Right.
Katie: Women have an intuition around sensing when a workplace or any sort of a place is positive or negative because we know when an undercurrent is going through.
Carol: Sure. Yeah, our intuition tells us that there’s something going on here. And if it’s good, you will feel that. And if it’s not, you’ll definitely feel that.
Katie: And you could be the cost.
Carol: Uh-hmm.
Katie: And if you’re the cost, we hope you know. But sometimes you’re the last to know.
Carol: Well, and as Katie says – “We have to learn to communicate without leaving a trail of bloody bodies behind us.”
And that is one reason you might not hear laughter or that when you go and walk among your employees, they all crouch in a corner.
Katie: Ha-ha-ha! And they run the other way?
Carol: Yeah. So just be aware of how you are perceived. And you don’t have to be everybody’s friend. It’s a little bit like being a mother. You don’t have to be everybody’s friend, but you should be pleasant. And be pleasant to be around because people do choose where they work for the most part.
Katie: Completely! What if I were a female leader? You know, maybe I have employees, maybe I don’t, but I have influence.
Carol: Uh-hmm.
Katie: What if I were a female in the workplace and I have this frustration? Because I’ve had women say this to me before. “I just don’t feel like people like me” or “I feel like I walk into a room…” Well, there’s that first type which is – “I don’t feel like people like me.”
To me, that’s a self-confidence issue. That’s one thing. The other thing is – I walk into a room and I feel like they all scatter or they all clam up or no one wants to come right out and talk to me. And they’ve got the sense that they’re that other type of woman which is overbearing or assertive. And sometimes assertive gets labeled as “bitchy” unfortunately.
Carol: Yes.
Katie: How can I be more of an effective person without turning these people off?
Carol: And one thing I would say is – listen. I think so often (and I’m speaking of myself here) is I have something to say and it’s really good and so I bark things out. And especially among my staff where we maybe brainstorming or something and I’ll be like – “No, no! I mean, you’re right, but what about this?” And I’ll try to add mine to it and I’ve just kind of negated what they’ve been saying.
Katie: Yes.
Carol: And so rather than negate what they’ve been saying – you know, give them a space and time to have their thought and have their breakthrough or whatever and say, “And can we do this?” So that’s kind of your “but-ectomy,” right?
Katie: Yes.
Carol: So talk a little bit about your “but-ectomy.”
Katie: Well, I would say you can use the “but-ectomy” and you can also use the Socratic point of view.
So the “but-ectomy” – when you decide to give someone some feedback or follow up to – “Here’s my idea.” “Yes, that’s a great idea. But what if we do this?” sounds a lot different like – “Yes, that’s a great idea and let’s do this.”
Carol: Yes.
Katie: Or “Let’s do this” or “What if we also consider this?” or “And instead…” The “but” sets up a visual, (not a visual) a mental – mentally in your vision, a mental barrier to forward movement.
Carol: Sure. Well, you’ve just negated everything that was said prior to.
Katie: Yeah, exactly.
Carol: And now my idea is the only one on the floor.
Katie: Oh, and you have to remember – as a leader or a woman of influence, you have influence over others when you let your opinion out.
Carol: Yes.
Katie: It gets a little bit more… I use the word “sensationalize.” It gets just broadcast a little bit more.
So your opinion is – “Great people like to know it.” However, it’s more likely to shut people down quickly because you’ve got the authority.
They are looking for acceptance and agreement from you. If they hear a “but” from you, they’ve just taken that as – “Well, she didn’t really buy into that because she said – “But we’re going to do this other thing.”
Carol: Right.
Katie: So simple. That’s such as simple – the “but-ectomy.”
Carol: The “but-ectomy” is a good one. And then also, you have the Socratic method?
Katie: So the Socratic method – I learned this one when I first started doing a whole lot of workshop training.
So as a management consultant, you end up in a workshop a lot, you end up in front of clients and you’re teaching them things or you’re taking them through a process.
And in a classroom environment, it’s much like a leadership environment. You’re the authority (whether you’ve earned it or not) standing up at the front of the room.
Carol: Sure.
Katie: So there I was at the front of the room at age 29, right? Ha-ha-ha!
Carol: You get the chalk and…
Katie: Yes. And I noticed this as a participant in a workshop too. When the person that’s leading the discussion reflects upon what someone says – like let’s say for example, I’m in front of a room and I say, “Well, what would be a great way of giving someone some positive feedback?”
And I open it up to the classroom. And one person says – “Making sure you write them a little note that tells them how you feel.” And I turn around and say, “Oh! Great answer!” Right? I’ve just judged it.
Carol: Right.
Katie: Even though I was positively judging it – let’s say Sally the next person says, “Give them candy that’s full of sugar.” And I might think that is a great idea, but instead I said, “Well, now they’re just going to have a sugar buzz and then a low about an hour later.”
So you know, I’ve said something that again is judgmental, but it wasn’t as positive as a great idea. Even if I meant it to be – I’ve just judged it.
Carol: Right.
Katie: Sitting around, listening to a leader pass judgment that way can sometimes take so much of a win than if someone say it without really knowing it.
Carol: Uh-hmm.
Katie: So the Socratic method – before you pass judgment, simply when someone says something or adds to an idea or you’re in a meeting and you’re coming up with problem solving ideas, you ask the rest of the group – “What do you all think about that?” or “What are some other ways we might do that?” or “That’s another idea. Let’s capture that on the parking lot sheet up here on the front.”
So you take it back to the group. I’m not saying don’t have an opinion – because people need you to be decisive.
Carol: Right.
Katie: But you do have to be careful when people feel like they’re so excited because they had an idea. You don’t want to be…
Carol: Sure. Don’t step on it.
Katie: Yeah. Don’t give them a “but.”
Carol: So spend a little time each day wandering among your employees. Do you do that?
Katie: Did you ever hear the term MBWA?
Carol: Yeah – Management by walking around?
Katie: Yeah. Do people still use that?
Carol: I don’t know. But who did that?
Katie: I did in 1980.
Carol: Ha-ha-ha!
Katie: No. It wasn’t 1980. I was in school.
Carol: Who wrote that?
Katie: Some management guru?
Carol: Yeah, it was. I know.
Katie: Really? Did it come from a management guru?
Carol: It really did. It was Tom…
Katie: Tom Peters?
Carol: Possibly. Yeah.
Katie: “That sounds like the right answer, Carol. But I think you’re probably wrong.”
Carol: Ha-ha-ha! I think I am.
Katie: “That sounds like the right answer, Carol. And I think you’re probably wrong.” See? Did you hear the “but” gone?
Carol: Yeah.
Katie: It sounded a little different. And I still told you, you were wrong.
Carol: Ha-ha-ha!
Katie: Very clever.
Carol: Very clever, Katie. I don’t feel bad about that at all.
Katie: I am a linguist.
Carol: Wait, I kind of do.
Katie: You do?
Carol: Ha-ha-ha!
Katie: You pretty poor thing.
Carol: Ha-ha-ha!
Katie: Well, I will send you to the podcast that says, “Don’t beat yourself up over something you did, but look forward instead.”
Carol: We’re talking about Tip 51 and I’m trying to get Katie back on track.
Katie: Oh! This is a test for you.
Carol: Ha-ha!
Katie: So “Managing by walking around.”
Carol: Yes. What’s important about it?
Katie: There’s a huge, huge piece that’s important about it. There’s two huge pieces – one of them is more tactical than the other.
The first one that’s not so tactical is that you’re seen as being supportive and available – supportive, available, accessible.
Carol: Uh-hmm.
Katie: There’s probably a [Unintelligible][0:10:41.5] with this. “Walk amongst your employees with a smile on your face and without a weapon in your hand.”
Carol: Oh, yeah. Ha-ha-ha!
Katie: That’d be nice, right?
Carol: I have a story for this one too.
Katie: Okay. So let me tell you the second piece that’s really important.
Carol: Okay. Go ahead.
Katie: And you can assess this – those of you listening at home. Think about what you learned last time you were out walking amongst people. You find out stuff.
Carol: Yeah.
Katie: You find stuff out in person that you would have never known otherwise. People will bring things up to you. You’ll notice something that’s going on. You’ll be walking around the corner with somebody at the same time or you’re in the ladies room together and someone might say, “Oh! By the way, I was going to tell you this.” And you may not have ever known that if you hadn’t seen that person.
Do not undervalue that. That’s huge – being in the place. Organizations that are not co-located have huge problems with this – because communication gets stuck.
Carol: Yeah, completely. Well, and let me tell you.
Katie: Tell me your story.
Carol: A friend of mine just took over a large association. And you know, she’s young – a young woman. And first day she walks in, she says hello to everybody, meets everybody and then she goes and sits in their offices. Not uninvited, but kind of just – “Can I come in? Can we talk?” And the interesting is – her [Unintelligible][0:12:17.6] who had been there for 30 years.
Katie: Never?
Carol: Had never been in their offices. And they were blown away. So don’t underestimate how important this is. They felt listened to. They felt like she’s going to be a great leader of this organization. It was a great beginning for her.
Katie: Doing that as well as doing it in a composed way. So I’m visualizing some people saying, “Okay. I’m going to be more visible. I’m going to make sure I get out to my vendors more.” or “I’m going to make sure that I go talk to this supplier more.” or “I’m going to go be with this team.”
And they’re frazzled women. If you’re a frazzled woman, raise your hand. If it shows, you’re just sending the message that now you’re available, you’re accessible and you’re not completely in control of your schedule because you know, you will sit in someone’s office and you’re fidgety because you’re like – “Okay. I got to go.”
There’s a tendency for us to feel like “busy means important.” Think about a boss though who is visible and walking around in a – got it together, composed, calm, my assistant is behind me and helping me out, (if you have an assistant) just someone that looks like you’ve got your act together.
Carol: I think it’s a huge difference.
Katie: I see more women… I remember one woman (this is a big company that I did some consulting in) and a woman got moved up to a VP level – a very, very big level. And I remember one of the people I was working with at the time saying, “Oh, she’s a mess. She can’t get to anything on time.”
Carol: Oh!
Katie: I know! And it was visible to him. (It was a “him.” It didn’t matter.)
Carol: No.
Katie: But I was just thinking…
Carol: It’s probably visible to everybody.
Katie: Yes, yes. She doesn’t reply to meetings. She doesn’t reply to emails when she does say she is. She’s a half an hour late. That just looks like you’re a hot mess – to use a term that everyone likes right now.
Carol: Yeah. Well, and you’ve got to be careful about that. That does not send good signals for your leadership. You need to be on top of things.
Katie: No!
Carol: You know, I get up at 6:00 o’clock every morning and start going through my emails. And by the time I walk in to my office, I’m through them.
Katie: Nice, Carol!
Carol: Well, and then I get a thousand more during the day, but I keep up with them. It is the point and that means that then when I have a meeting, I don’t feel rushed to get to it. I mean, there’s just a lot of things that come with being calm during your day.
Katie: Yes. So I like the way women… There’s that old “Fake it to make it” reminder which we use a lot in public speaking. “Fake it to make it. Just pretend like you look composed even if your stomach is turning. Take a breath. Keep yourself together. Just tolerate and fake it.”
And sometimes, that’s what a woman needs. It’s that sense of – It’s okay not to have it together. It’s not necessarily okay to let the world see that.
Carol: Right.
Katie: That feels a little in-genuine. I understand that. But the alternative is you’re going to be becoming a part of the scene and everyone is going to know it. Nobody wants that.
Carol: No. So let’s move on to – “Judge your workplace by the number of smiles and degree of laughter.”
Katie: Oh! – Just a happy thing.
Carol: It is just a happy thing. You know, one of the things I miss about being in the restaurant industry and actually having 50 people working during a busy shift and things happening and…
Katie: Shift happening.
Carol: I just miss that sense of comradery where maybe a tray of everything spills and we all just dive in to take care of it and…
Katie: Teamwork.
Carol: Teamwork and laughter. You know, knowing somebody else’s personality well enough to know how to dig them and have a good time working.
Katie: Uh-hmm.
Carol: Not that I don’t have that now, but an office situation is a little less on the go and frenetic than that.
Katie: I sensed that last night – that feeling of team-manship in a crazy office. Boy! That’s a great indication of things going well together.
Bobby and I were sitting at a busy counter at a restaurant. And we couldn’t get into the restaurant so we sat at the counter where you can serve it.
And I believe the man behind the counter, he had a tie on. So I think maybe he was a manager. And then there was a bartender and then there was that occasional person that was coming in and out from the kitchen in another part of the building.
And man! They were crazy. But the way that they kind of hand it off to one another – “Hey, hand me that over there. Hey, we’re out of forks over here.” You know, everyone just did whatever it took because it was frantic.
Carol: Yeah. And when it’s working, it’s like a ballet.
Katie: Yeah.
Carol: And you know it’s working and it’s clicking and it’s all going and you can have fun with it.
Katie: I wonder if you could look at the chaos that’s in your office? Here’s an attitude adjustment or an outlook adjustment maybe.
So what if you have a workplace that looks chaotic and feels that way? I wonder if you could just change the way you’re looking at it by looking at it instead as a coordinated ballet?
Carol: Uh-hmm.
Katie: I think a high performing team – one of the things that I identify with a high performing team is inner-dependence. Inner-dependence being defined as – “The left hand knows what the right hand not just is doing, but is going to do. So there’s an expected behavior around who does what and who’s hands off to what.
A great office can be seen that way, even though it might feel like it’s a little frantic. Maybe underneath it, it’s really well coordinated. That’d be a nice way to look at it.
Carol: Yeah. It is.
Katie: Tell us the third of the tips again.
Carol: “Always show pleasure at the success of others.”
Katie: This is an attitude check as well.
Carol: Uh-hmm.
Katie: If you see someone succeeding and you have a sense of competition or feeling threatened.
Carol: Oh!
Katie: I’m not saying you do, but…
Carol: I do not. Ha-ha-ha!
Katie: Has that ever happened?
Carol: Oh, I guess so. Yeah.
Katie: I’ll feel that way, not because I wish them poorly, but because I felt it was a reflection. Okay. I’m not saying that this is true. But it’s often a reflection of something that I might be inadequate at.
Carol: Oh.
Katie: “Wow! That person just achieved this and this and this.” And so my first thought is, “Shoot! How come I couldn’t do that?”
Carol: Right.
Katie: Well, first of all, that’s beating up on yourself.
Carol: Right.
Katie: But second of all, be careful that that doesn’t come out as negative towards the other when it’s not about them, it’s about you.
So that tip was written to remember to show pleasure at the success of others, rather than feeling like it’s a threat. Continue the karma, the positive energy going back into the universe.
Carol: Yes. And can I just say – I have a friend who does this and he does it at the beginning of every speech and he does it throughout his speeches and it’s very interesting. He always comes back to gratitude somehow and it’s so genuine that he doesn’t even know he’s doing it.
But he will get up at the beginning of a speech and say, “Thank you all for having me here. I cannot tell you how wonderful it is to be amongst you.” And he’ll say somebody’s name that’s in the room – maybe one or two people. “It’s been so long since I’ve been here. Really fabulous to be around these folks.”
Katie: How nice!
Carol: And then in the middle of the speech, he says something else about – “I’m so honored and humbled to be your keynote speaker.”
Katie: And that shows such composure to think of that, instead of worrying about what he’s going to say.
Carol: Exactly. And then at the end of the speech, he always says something about it. And so it makes everybody in the room just feel fabulous.
Katie: And grateful.
Carol: Yeah. And you can really feel it when he gets done – that you’re just there with him and he’s your best friend.
Katie: Nice!
Carol: Yeah. Very nice.
Katie: One of the things I do sometimes in team-building workshops or any sort of a workshop where I’m trying to get the spree going with the group. I will listen for positive things and I’ll keep a little… This is fun. This is a funny way of doing it because human behavior is corky to me.
I’ll keep a list. It’s kind of like the version of gold stars that we mention in this version of the tip. I keep a list on the wall of everyone’s names that’s in the room. (So this works if it’s not a huge room.) And then when I hear somebody do something positive or something that’s just a tiny bit productive – like asking a powerful question or calling the question or saying, “Wow!” or giving somebody something positive like – “That’s a great idea, Carol.”
I put a little star next to their name. So I don’t tell them what the list is for. But they’ve noticed that at the break, I put everyone’s name on the wall. And then I slowly – as we’re going through the process and the agenda or the workshop, whatever it is – there started to become stars next to people’s names.
Carol: Oh.
Katie: It’s hysterical. They turn into this competitive lot of trying to figure out who’s doing what.
Carol: Ha-ha-ha!
Katie: Because I never told them.
Carol: And they don’t know, right? How interesting.
Katie: And I’ve yet for them to really figure out exactly what it is. Sometimes it’s as subtle as something that I call, “meeting movers.” When someone says something observational that moves the process forward or suggests that we do something, it’s a great meeting mover.
So these team tips, these team traits that I see that are useful. And then when I finally do tell them, they were like – “Oh, my God! That was so funny!” And now they start paying just a little bit more attention to it.
Carol: Perfect!
Katie: It’s a fun way of giving feedback. I guess it would be great if they were aware of it more from the beginning.
Carol: Ha-ha-ha!
Katie: But I like messing with their minds.
[MUSIC PLAYS]
Carol: Oh, Katie! That sounds like one of your workshops, Katie.
Katie: That sounds like one of my workshops! Very dynamic and fun!
Carol: Yeah, very fun.
Katie: People love having positive feedback.
Carol: They do.
Katie: Don’t forget! And here, we’ll leave everyone with a challenge today. From where you are, the next three people you ran into – find something positive to say to each one of them.
Carol: Showing pleasure at their success.
Katie: Exactly! Isn’t that nice?
We’re so glad you joined us for this episode of the Skirt Strategies podcast. We’d love to hear from you with questions or comments. Email us at info@skirtstrategies.com or interact with us on Facebook. Now more than ever, the world needs powerful, confident female leaders – and that’s what we are.
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