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In this episode Katie and Carol discuss Tip No. 3 from Skirt Strategies: 249 Success Tips for Women in Leadership: Avoid gossip. It looks immensely unprofessional.
I hate to say it ladies, but we are often labeled as gossipers. That goes hand-in-hand with passing along hearsay, speculating interpersonal clashes, and thriving on unconfirmed fashion reports.
Now I love a drama as much as the next person, and something about being surprised by who did what is just downright entertaining, but it comes at a cost. At work it costs us our professionalism and the ethical standards of being a safe house for employees needing a trusted source to take grievances. Think about that.
Here’s a way to handle these situations: if you did not see it, it is hearsay, do not repeat it. And do not use it as a basis for discipline. Substantiate any rumor before acting.
If you did see it, that does not give you cause to become the source of its circulation.
PODCAST TRANSCRIPTION
Hello and welcome to the Skirt Strategies podcast, the podcast to help you get the support, validation and skills you need to accomplish your goals and really succeed in a male dominated world – all without having to give up your incredible female strengths.
Katie: Welcome to the Skirt Strategies podcast.
Carol: Today we are doing Tip Number 3.
Katie: So this is a book tip in the form of a podcast. And it’s from the book – Skirt Strategies: 249 Success Tips for Women in Leadership from Katie Snapp and Carol Wight.
And we are delving into each of the tips – over the course of however long it takes us.
Carol: All 249. So stay posted.
Katie: Yeah. Because all of them have some sort of a message.
Carol: Oh, yeah – deep, rich message.
Katie: A deep message. Some of them are obvious messages. I would say this one is an obvious message, but it’s so useful for reminding.
Carol: And the tip is – Avoid gossip. It looks immensely unprofessional.
Katie: We added the descriptor about unprofessional, because I wanted to give it (when we wrote it) just a little sting.
Carol: Right.
Katie: It’s tempting to do the gossip. And you can get me going. But if you’re reminding me how unprofessional that looks, I’m going to hold back just a little bit – if I possibly can.
Carol: Right. Well, and interestingly one of the things I would say about gossip and the dangers of it – is making a decision based on somebody said about something else…
Katie: Rather than what you know as fact?
Carol: Oh! So dangerous!
Katie: Or even if you’re passing it on and you do know it for a fact – is it necessary?
Carol: Right. Well, then it’s just Cathy and a friend of mine who works at the Animal Humane Society would say, “Don’t say that. That’s mean to cats.”
But one of the things that has come up in my life a lot – is that people will ask me to make decisions based on hearsay. And usually, it’s somebody saying that somebody else did something else.
Katie: Okay.
Carol: And I’d say, “Absolutely not. I will not make a decision based on that because I didn’t see it. I don’t know it to be true until I hear it from that person.”
So I will investigate and try to get down to the bottom of it. But unless I know something to be absolutely true, I do not make a decision about that.
Katie: Even if you know it to be true, it’s not necessarily the way that it happened.
Carol: Sure. No, giving everybody a chance to talk about what happened from their point of view is very critical.
Katie: Is pretty critical.
Carol: And the other thing I don’t do – is I don’t discipline people in front of each other.
Katie: Oh! No.
Carol: Which is interesting because it’s kind of like in a family. You know, my brother always used to say that, “Well, Carol never gets in trouble for that.” And I used to always say, “Well, Stan never gets in trouble for that.”
And you know what? We were both getting in trouble for it. It just wasn’t being done in front of us.
Katie: Oh, okay.
Carol: Right. So I think I may have gotten that value from my mother – that you just don’t discipline people in front of each other. It’s embarrassing and it’s wrong.
Katie: Right.
Carol: So when somebody comes to me with hearsay or gossip and says, “That person did such and such and it’s against our rules. You need to do something about it.” I will definitely do something about it. The person who told me may never know.
And what I’m going to do is investigate. I’m not going to go to that person and say, “You did such and such.” I’m going to say, “There’s a rumor that something has happened. Would you like to tell me about it from your point of view?”
Katie: Now, let’s say that the information is one of two categories, germane to work on business or completely unrelated.
Carol: Okay.
Katie: I heard that so and so god a DWI last week.
Carol: Ouch.
Katie: And I know it to be pretty true, but I actually haven’t seen it written on paper – so I don’t know for sure.
Is that legitimate to be passing along?
Carol: Okay. So in the situation where that person maybe driving a company vehicle that’s against the company rules – for some reason, if it’s a situation where you just know that about the person and it has nothing to do with their job, I don’t think that’s fair.
Katie: Okay.
Carol: And I don’t think it’s fair to talk about it to another person that can’t do anything.
Katie: It’s like, “Why are you saying it?”
Carol: Right. That’s just me.
Katie: Well, especially if you put it on Facebook.
Carol: Oh my God!
Katie: I don’t do that.
Carol: Oh, you haven’t yet.
Katie: But I wouldn’t do that. I would not do that.
Carol: No. And sometimes you know? We have girlfriends and we talk to them and we tell them things. And it’s okay if they understand that this is just between the two of you. But sometimes you’ve got to say that.
Katie: Well, I would like to know that it was held between the two of us – if it was something I told them.
Carol: But sometimes if you don’t say that, they don’t know that that’s what your expectation is. So just be sure and say that – if that is your expectation.
I have a situation where I had a friend at work (and she was a colleague of mine.) I was venting about something work-related. She thought it was God’s word and she went out and said it like I meant it. And I really didn’t appreciate her taking it. And she was taking it to her bosses, basically. And telling them, “Well, this is what was said.”
Katie: Yeah.
Carol: I mean, I was just venting. I was talking to somebody on my own level. I made a huge mistake. I didn’t ask her to hold it confidentially and not to tell anybody because it was just venting.
Katie: Yeah. Well, so there’s a lesson there in validating what the sensitivity of what somebody is saying to you.
That happened to me recently. I burned a friend accidently and she had told me some information about a project that was going on at some place where she had worked. And she gave me some insight as to – “By the way, it’s going to be difficult because it’s a political position or people are…”
You know, whatever was it she said and specific about it – I didn’t realize that was sensitive. I thought it was public knowledge that it was a politically sensitive position or whatever it was that she had told me.
And it got back to her and she called me and she said, “I just wanted to ask you. Did you tell anybody else about what I told you?” And I had to say, “Yeah, yeah, yeah.”
So I felt horrible, horrible. Should she have framed it more delicately when she told me? Yes. She thought it was obvious and I did not. I thought that was common knowledge that she was passing onto me.
So there you are. I’ve just gossiped and I didn’t realize that it was going to hurt somebody. And so I looked unprofessional by not checking.
Carol: Sure. So what did you do about it?
Katie: I called her. Well, when she was on the phone, she called me and I just had to say, “I’m so, so sorry. And here’s who I think I told and why it got back to you.”
Carol: Sure.
Katie: And she said, “Well, it’s just kind of interesting because when it got back to me – it was almost word per word what I told you.”
Carol: Oh, wow! That doesn’t usually happen. I mean, usually it takes a twist or too.
Katie: Yeah, yeah. Exactly! And I still needed to take her out to lunch. But I sent her a note in the mail. It just said, “I feel horrible about that happening. And just know that my intent was not for that to happen. I just didn’t check. I just did not realize it was…”
Carol: You didn’t think about it being…
Katie: And don’t you know? When those sorts of things happen, you just hate yourself.
Carol: Oh, yeah!
Katie: And gossip is the same sort of thing. I mean, I will pass on something and then I’ll look back and I’ll say, “God! That sounded kind of catty.”
I got kind a caught up in the stewing in somebody else’s mistake and then I feel bad. To me – my remorse goes back to what it was like in high school. And my high school wasn’t horrible that way, but how girls can sometimes be mean to one another.
Carol: Oh my, gosh! The mean girl syndrome.
Katie: And I really don’t think I was one of those girls. But I would just be mortified – if I was.
Carol: Yeah. Okay. Here’s something that I’m going to say – and we might bring in the undercover man here in a minute. And that’s just somebody to give us a man’s perspective on this.
You know, I tell my husband things in a confidential manner and we’re just talking, right? It’s just gossiping. I will admit.
Katie: Right.
Carol: He thinks he has to do something about it. He doesn’t realize that I’m just telling him to tell him. I’m not telling him to go beat up whoever said that. He’s got to fix it.
Katie: He wants to fix it.
Carol: And it’s interesting because… And we need to know this. We as women – are kind of used to that chatty gossip about other people. It’s kind of engrained in us. And I will say for millennia because of cavewomen. We would get together and we were the social ones that would talk about social things, right?
So I’m going to say that when I tell my husband these things, they’re not necessarily catty – although they could be perceived that way. But he thinks he has to go out and beat the person up. And it’s not physical. I’m not talking literally, but I’m talking now he’s charged.
Katie: Right.
Carol: And then like, “No, no, no! I was just telling you.” I mean, “If I tell Katie – stuff, Katie doesn’t run around and tell me how it’s got to be fixed.” It’s not about fixing it. It’s about, “I needed somebody to vent with.”
Katie: Sure.
Carol: So everybody have that person.
Katie: My husband is very discreet. But he loves to talk about it.
Carol: Does he?
Katie: He won’t take it anywhere. But he will love to hear about it. So I’m not going to say he’s a gossiper because that will come back to me.
Carol: Right.
Katie: And we’re broadcasting.
Carol: And it’s probably not true.
Katie: No, it’s not true. But if I need to say, “Listen to what happened. It just doesn’t seem right. So and so is being mean when she did this. Can you believe…” He’ll just be like, “I could not believe…!”
Carol: Right – just being totally on your side and totally…
Katie: Yeah. He likes to process it and he kind of likes to say, “I can’t believe somebody would…!”
So that’s a little gossipy. But there’s also some therapy in it. There’s also a little bit of, “Honey. I need to know what happened. Am I seeing this wrong?”
Carol: “Am I being too sensitive about it?”
Katie: That’s helpful.
Carol: “Should I really be pissed in this situation or should I just let it go?”
Katie: So maybe gossip between ourselves and our primary others – our partner. Maybe that’s not really gossip.
Carol: Well, like I say – have a trusted friend that knows the things that you’re saying… or maybe isn’t in your industry that would help, but knows that the things you’re saying are private and you need to share because you need to…
And mostly, it’s because we’re wanting validation and that’s what we get from our friends – which is not always what I get from my husband. A lot of times he’s like, “Well, you’re wrong.”
Katie: Right, right.
Carol: It’s like, “No! That’s not what Katie would say.”
Katie: “Why would you ever think that?”
Carol: So would you like to bring in…?
Katie: Let’s bring in the undercover man.
[MUSIC PLAYS]
This is the portion of our podcast called “The Undercover Man” – where we bring in the perspective of the opposite sex.
Carol: And here he is on stage number two.
Undercover Man: No.
Katie: We have a man here and we wanted to see what his perspective is – on this tip.
We’re at Tip Number 3 – Avoid gossip. It looks immensely unprofessional.
We think this may have some gender implications. Let us first be clear that our undercover man – chose not to identify himself.
Undercover Man: For obvious reasons.
Katie: You’re right. That’s undercover. So we think you maybe more safe to say what you think.
Undercover Man: Okay. I’ll try.
Katie: Alright. Tell us whether there is a huge gender difference in how gossip is carried out in the workplace.
Undercover Man: I have seen some differences about how gossip is carried out. But I do want to be clear – that in my experience, both men and women do gossip. But I think maybe in general, there are some differences.
Now, you can have some… the outliers in both camps can really be the one that you have to watch out for. So there can be some men that all they do – is gossip. But I think in general, men do not enjoy the sport of gossip – quite as much as women did.
Katie: Do they look as unprofessional? Is there more prone for women to look unprofessional doing it? Is it because of our tone? Why do we get more trouble doing it?
Undercover Man: I think it maybe topic related – as much as tone related.
If you’re talking about something that you’re not sure about – but if it were true, it would be hugely important and in most cases – actionable, that maybe okay. That’s just like a strategic intelligence or watching out for the business or something.
But if it’s something that whether it’s true or not or is not going to make a whole hell of beans of difference – other than maybe hurting some feelings all around, then that’s where I think the line should be bright.
And again, is it both men and women? Yes. But in my experience, if we’re honest here for in the cone of honesty – then I believe I have seen some differences.
Carol: We are always in that cone – when we have the undercover man. Just so you know.
Katie: If I’m a follower and I’m listening to the podcast – Where do I want to draw that line? What do I want to be careful with and what are the red flags?
Undercover Man: Well, I think from a professionalism point of view – it’s like speculating about things, trying to guess the motivations of certain people and certain things is not a bad thing. That’s a human strength – the ability to predict future behavior by current behavior. That’s not a weakness – that’s a strength.
Katie: Yeah.
Undercover Man: But I think it’s a question of – If that’s your only strategy – is to try to guess what people are doing when there’s other means available to you, like going in and asking them or saying, “Hey, what’s going on here?” That’s where I think that it can really make a person of either gender look really bad.
Carol: Interesting.
Katie: What would you say – we need to look out for, Carol? So – the unprofessional aspect of it? How can we leverage passing on information in a useful way where we’re making safe assumptions that lead us to actions and results versus – be careful about where you thread.
Carol: And I think the undercover man had it right. When you’re talking strategy and business, as opposed to personalities and personal things, I think that maybe the bright line – that if you can stay away from talking about personalities and personal issues and as long as you’re talking about something to do with work.
Now, we brought up an example and it was – “So and so got a DWI.” Now, in the cast that that person is a driver in your fleet, somebody probably needs to know that and be sure you’re going to the right person. But just to put it out there in the lunch room, that’s probably a personal issue that somebody else has.
Undercover Man: Well, even if they’re not a driver. And you know? DWI is a crime that has big political image and marketing and brand associations.
That’s not the sort of thing that would be inappropriate to share with somebody at a higher level or at a level that could do something about it.
But I totally agree. You don’t want to go blabbing that in the lunch room before the people in the company that can really do something about it – in terms of acting or reacting can do something about it.
Katie: It’s a sensitive issue.
Undercover Man: Yeah. That’s another point – is who you’re talking to about a topic, makes a big difference.
Katie: Sure. I do have a couple of communication tips – when I talk about the communications class that I sometimes teach.
What are some unprofessional…? Where is the verbiage that you need to be careful of? And there’s two things that I tell people to look for.
First of all – if you’re using judgmental words, if you start to get into a judgmental word like stupid, lazy, dumb, criminal, you’re probably describing something in a way that’s more tainted than it needs to be so you’ve dwelled…
Carol: More gossipy?
Katie: Yeah. You’ve dwelled into unprofessionalism.
Carol: Right.
Katie: You can pass on information and be objective with what you clear. “You know, of observations, here’s what I saw and here’s the specifics around it” – without drawing the implications.
The second thing – is whether you use what I call the absolutes, the always, never, sometimes, everybody, nobody.
Carol: We call it in our family – reactionary language.
Katie: Oh, you do?
Carol: We do.
Katie: If I’m saying, “Everybody saw that guy get pulled over.” That’s not true and you’re sensationalizing it.
Carol: Right.
Katie: If you find yourself sensationalizing something because you’re a drama queen and you get more of an audience, you’re probably drifting into unprofessional and you’re probably drifting into gossip. So I’d catch yourself there – resist the urge.
Carol: Got it.
Katie: Those are couple of good tips.
Undercover Man: I agree. And because the song is so cool – can I play that for my outro, please?
Katie: You may.
Undercover Man: Thank you.
Katie: Thanks undercover man.
[MUSIC PLAYS]
Carol: Okay. So that was the undercover man. And we were talking about gossip.
Katie: That’s it for this podcast – all about gossip and how to be more professional.
Next time we’re going to bring you a conglomeration of tips from the book. Tip 4, 5, 6 and 7 – all about public speaking.
[MUSIC PLAYS]
That’s it for this episode of the Skirt Strategies podcast. Thank you for joining us and please be sure to leave a question or comment at skirtstrategies.com. Remember that success comes when you lead using your natural female strengths.