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Runtime: 23 Minutes.
In this podcast, Katie and Carol talk about Tips 34, 36 and 37 from their book Skirt Strategies: 249 Success Tips for Women in Leadership.
Tip No. 34. Do not hesitate to forgive. But don’t be a pushover either.
Remember that forgiveness is for you, not necessarily for the other person. It is for your heart to let go of any resentment.
We may have a tendency to hold on to something if we think wrong has been done, but you may want to think about what that does to inhibit your forward development
Tip No. 36 Get to the point by using efficiency in your language.
Tip No. 37 Know when not to be too blunt. Know when to be a little blunt.
All 249 Success Tips in the book Skirt Strategies: 249 Success Tips for Women in Leadership and is available at Amazon Buy Now
PODCAST TRANSCRIPTION
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Hello and welcome to the Skirt Strategies podcast, the podcast to help you get the support, validation and skills you need to accomplish your goals and really succeed in a male dominated world – all without having to give up your incredible female strengths.
Katie: Welcome to another episode…
Carol: Of Skirt Strategies.
Katie: These are great tips for any of you. I don’t care who you are. Woman, man, leader, not leader, follower…
Carol: Did I told you that my husband is one of our biggest fans of this podcast? I think it’s so fun because… And then he throws this stuff up in my face.
Katie: Like you said.
Carol: He’s like, “Well, that’s not what you said in your podcast.” Shoot.
Katie: You don’t tell and we don’t actually live by these things.
Carol: Yeah.
Katie: We say them out loud so they were more likely to live by them. I think we’re all that way. But we do believe in these.
Carol: We do.
Katie: We’re going to get three different tips today.
Carol: We are.
Katie: These are from the book – Skirt Strategies: 249 Success Tips for Women in Leadership.
Carol, why don’t you tell us what those three are? Then we’ll go into them just a little more depth.
Carol: I will do. So we are at…
- Number 34: Do not hesitate to forgive, but don’t be a pushover either.
A little contradictory right there.
- Number 36: Get to the point, by using efficiency in your language.
- Number 37: Know when not to be blunt. Know when to be a little bit blunt.
Again, another contradiction. And we’re going to take you through those.
Katie: Which is why these all hinge on balance, I think.
Carol: Oh, yes. They’ve come together under – How do you balance between forgiveness and pushover?
Katie: Between rattling on and being efficient in your language.
Carol: Being blunt and not being blunt.
Katie: Not so blunt. And those of you that are linear ate thinking, “Did she say Tip Number 34 and 36 and 37? I wonder what happened to 35.”
Carol: She can’t count.
Katie: Tip Number 35 in Skirt Strategies is – Hum or whistle, but don’t skip.
The book itself has 249 tips. And for those of you that have it, you know that some of them were just a little bit off the wall and goofy. And that’s what Number 35 is. Hum or whistle, but don’t skip.
I find skipping to be one of the fastest ways of getting from point A to B – without actually breaking into a run. So even though I’m telling you not to skip…
You know, when we want to break an ankle or twist something because you probably have your work shoes on. But I will contradict myself and say skipping is okay.
That’s all the time we’re going to spend on Tip Number 35, because we’re really going to talk more about balance today.
Carol: Wonderful! Let’s do. So don’t hesitate to forgive.
Tony Robins (the Philosopher that he is) said, “Forgiveness is a gift you give yourself.”
Katie: What does that mean?
Carol: Well, so often we talk about forgiveness as something we’re giving somebody else and it has nothing to do with that.
If we can just remember that – to forgive is to give ourselves that peace of mind that we need, it has nothing to do with the other person. The other person has possibly already forgiven themselves.
Katie: It’s letting go of a burden.
Carol: It is. It’s a huge burden that we keep on our own shoulders by keeping whatever the other person did to us.
Katie: We’re hanging onto it.
Carol: Yeah. That’s what forgiveness is about.
Katie: And there’s a lot of energy spent in hanging onto things.
Carol: There is, and it’s wasted energy.
Katie: Do you have people in your life that you look at they just are easy going and nothing bothers them?
They don’t tend to hang on to stuff. Unless they’re living a secret life.
Carol: That you don’t know about?
Katie: And they’re going home and kicking the dog or something.
But at the surface – at least, (we’ll assume that that’s their reality) they just let it roll off of their back.
They don’t hang on to stuff. And that’s why letting go of it can be so useful.
Carol: And don’t hesitate to forgive the other person as well if they need it. So does that other person need your forgiveness in order to move on?
Katie: So what are you saying different with that – is consider what they need from it?
Carol: Right. I mean, if it’s fresh and they have not forgiven themselves for whatever they did to you – you might just let them off the hook by letting them know that you forgive them.
Katie: Have you ever been made fun of at work?
Carol: Only behind my back. Not that I know of.
Katie: Oh, the guys I used to work with would just… office antics.
And what used to be kind of a normal way of making fun of people where I work – was to cut out pictures and put them on the bulletin board when you aren’t looking. Especially if you had been in the company newsletter, now they had a picture of you.
Now this was a few years ago. Especially at work, you wouldn’t get online and get somebody’s picture from their Facebook posting. But if you had a picture of somebody, because they were written up in a little article in the newsletter, now they had something on you because they had a copy of your face.
Carol: Oh, right.
Katie: But then it seem archaic, but it was relatively fresh to get a picture of somebody that was in your possession because you didn’t have a phone that could just do it on a whim.
So they would put things on a bulletin board with headlines. And one time, the National Inquirer’s headline was about a person that had given them a story. (It was obviously a fictitious one. But you know, there’re sensationalized stories in the National Inquirer.)
And the headline was really big. I was Bigfoot’s love slave. And it had a picture of Bigfoot – standing akimbo with his legs apart. And my face was right in between his legs.
Carol: God!
Katie: So that was on the bulletin board.
I walked in and there was a group of people standing around the bulletin board – giggling. They all looked over at me and then they scattered.
Carol: Right.
Katie: This is a story about forgiveness. At some level, you think, “Why is somebody putting me in the middle of this?”
Carol: Right.
Katie: And it’s easy to hang onto. Well, when jokes are going around – practical jokes, you actually kind of have to see it as, “Maybe I’m popular because it’s a practical joke about me and they love to make fun of me.” But I think we all dished it out to one another.
Carol: Right.
Katie: At some level, I had to figure out where do I look at that and go, “I can’t believe my face is on the bulletin board” – versus, “I got to just go with it and laugh along.”
Carol: Oh, right.
Katie: It’s a balance.
Carol: Yeah, it is a balance.
Katie: And the initial shock of seeing it and then like – laughed along with it. It was much easier.
So laughing along with it is kind of a kin to giving someone forgiveness and just letting it go.
Carol: Not letting it hurt you.
Katie: And insulted Bigfoot too.
Carol: And there is a way that…
Katie: I was Bigfoot’s love slave. I’ll never forget that. I wonder if those guys remember that.
Carol: I’m sorry. That is kind of hilarious.
Katie: You know what? That’s funny. It was.
How about that other tip? Get to the point by using efficiency in your language. Do you remember the tip we had about giving directions?
Carol: We do. Yes, yes.
Katie: There’s a communication skill called, lasering.
Carol: Right.
Katie: It’s kind of a common word for lasering and it’s very descriptive. People like the term lasering because it just says, “Focusing in on it and getting the conversation done.”
Carol: Right.
Katie: We use lasering in our communication classes. Somewhere in our website – we’ve got some reference to what lasering might look like. But we definitely use it in our workshops.
When you laser a conversation, you are narrowing it down to 11 words or less.
Carol: Oh, nice.
Katie: Now, 11 is arbitrary – it’s just few. And so giving it a number – 11 or 12 words.
If you had to give someone a message and wanting to get right to the heart of it, do it in as few words as possible.
Carol: I also had somebody tell me, “Yeah, writing was the same way. So write in as few words as possible. If there’s a way to shorten the sentence, always shorten the sentence.”
I don’t live by that rule, but I look at my sentences often and think about that.
Katie: I don’t. In the books that we write and the one that I’m writing right now on transitions, I will elaborate a little bit.
But I took a class in high school. I had some great high school classes in writing. And Mrs. LeBlanc was teaching it and one of the things she would say in efficiency in your language – “Look what you’ve written and see how many of the words you can just extricate from the sense.”
Carol: Right.
Katie: And so actually, our Email Etiquette E-book – which we sell online, has that exercise as an example for offices at skirtstrategies.com – if you look up email etiquette.
The emails that you send can be more efficient or can be lasered. And if you look at anyone’s sentence and ask yourself, “How many of those words can I just cross out and the sentence means the exact same thing?”
Carol: Right.
Katie: I did that with Sophie – my daughter. She was writing some sort of an essay for school this last semester.
And she sent it to me and she said, “Mom! It’s like 1,200 words and it has to be 1,000.” So I went through and I just started axing here and there.
And I send them back to her and she was like, “What have you done?”
Carol: “That’s not what I meant!”
Katie: I was like, “No! Take a look at how you’re saying things. And if you really want to get for this purpose, because of word count, if you want to get it down, there are a lot of ways that you can say things differently.”
Carol: Right. So now you were going to tell us laser technique. And I do want to get back to that.
Katie: The laser technique is changing or translating the way you say something from what might be natural and therefore, unnecessarily elaborative into 12 or 11 words or less. (I think I settled 11.) So let’s say 11 words or less.
Let’s say that you are working for me and you’ve missed three out of the last four staff meetings and staff meetings are mandatory.
Carol: Right.
Katie: So I’m passing you on the hall and I need to give you the information that, “You know, Carol. I’ve noticed that you’ve missed a lot of meetings. And the other day you weren’t in the staff meeting, we covered a lot of things. And it’s important for me that you hear those things. So I’m wondering why you’re missing those meetings.”
Carol: Yeah.
Katie: So see how I’m kind of blabbing on?
Carol: Yeah.
Katie: Then you all go drawn riding with it – blab, blab, blab, right?
Now if instead, I pass you in the hall and said, “Carol. Staff meetings are mandatory. What’s going on?”
Carol: Right.
Katie: It sticks with you. It just sticks with you. It’s a great way of being cogent in your message.
Carol: Wow! Yeah.
Katie: Do you always want to do it? Not necessarily. But if you’re the type of person that tends to rattle on, it’s a great way of tightening up your language efficiency.
Carol: Great message. Be efficient in your language. Get to the point.
Katie: We referred to it in Tip Number 27 – when we were talking about giving directions.
Carol: Yes.
Katie: And we’re talking like map directions – not just directions and a task, but it’s the same sort of thing.
Carol: It is.
Katie: Yeah. In lasering – once you tighten it up and you say it, it’s a good idea in a conversation to let it sit after that.
So I might say, “Carol. Staff meetings are mandatory. Where have you been?” Now I put it back in your lap.
Carol: Right. So then you’d be silent.
Katie: So I have to be silent.
Carol: Right.
Katie: I’ve just gone from rattling on – to saying something in 12 words or less and being silent.
Carol: Right. So you can’t then say, “Where have you been? I’ve noticed that you’re gone and blah, blah, blah.”
Katie: Exactly.
Carol: Yeah. Just let it sit. Let them come back.
Katie: Right.
Carol: And silence is a real tool if you’ll use it.
Katie: Susan Scott…
Carol: Fierce conversations.
Katie: Would say, “Let silence do the heavy lifting.”
Carol: Oh, yeah.
Katie: That’s the way she says it.
Carol: Yeah.
Katie: We should have her on our podcast. I wonder if she’d take an interview over the phone.
Carol: We talk about her here and now.
Katie: I know.
Carol: Okay. So Number 37: Know when not to be too blunt and know when to be a little blunt.
Katie: “Shut up!” It’s kind of blunt.
Carol: That’s a little blunt.
Katie: And a little rude.
Carol: Oh, I would say so.
Katie: What does this mean?
Carol: I don’t know. I think you wrote it.
Katie: Why did you just throw me under the bus?
Carol: Blunt.
Katie: Is there a value in being blunt?
Carol: Oh, just like we just said. It’s efficiency. Yeah. There’s some efficiency to it. Rattling on doesn’t serve us well.
Katie: Is there a time when it ever would now rattling on (just the terminology makes it sound like it’s a negative.)
Carol: It doesn’t serve as well.
Katie: Extrapolating versus bluntness. When would you want to be not so blunt?
Carol: Well, I think you’ll look at how you are perceived. How do people perceive you? Did they perceive you as that totally blunt person who leaves bloody bodies in her wake?
In that case, then you need to be not so blunt. If something calls for a little bit of emotional intelligence, you might not want to be so blunt. If you’re going to ball over somebody or leave bloody bodies in your wake, you want to think about that.
Katie: The topic makes a difference. The other person in the conversation makes a difference. We’re all aware of that. We all probably have a certain level of natural adaptiveness towards that.
I think our followers tend to put themselves in one of two categories. I mean, we’re kind of tough on ourselves anyway. So we see ourselves kind of as one extreme than the other.
There are those of our followers that feel like they’re soft spoken or they’re rolled over or they’re not heard. Those are the ones that can be more blunt perhaps – diplomatically so.
Carol: Yeah.
Katie: Then there’s the other category of followers.
Carol: Oh, and I don’t know that I would put them in that too blunt category, but keep going with your thought.
Katie: That can be too blunt. That should be more blunt. I’m not sure what I said. Re-roll the transcript, please? This is what it’s like – having a conversation with me anyway.
Carol: So I know that you can be blunt, but this is not one of those. You’re rattling on.
Katie: But what I meant… Let me backtrack.
Carol: Please do. Okay, do.
Katie: If you’re one of those followers that says, “I don’t feel like I make enough of an impact verbally. I’m a bit of a wallflower or I don’t speak up for myself or I don’t self-advocate or I waffle when I say something.”
Carol: Yeah.
Katie: But even strong people have moments when they’re that way.
Carol: Sure.
Katie: What would you give them for advice around bluntness? Be more blunt?
Carol: Well, I think come back to the laser. Because even though that can sound blunt – if you’re being very thoughtful about how you’re being blunt, maybe that’s it.
You know, blunt – the word itself sounds like you haven’t put a whole lot of thought into it. You’re just, “blah.”
Katie: Do you know that song by James Blunt? “You’re beautiful, it’s true. I saw your face in a crowded space…”
Carol: And that has to do with?
Katie: His name is Blunt.
Carol: So as I was saying. Blunt can sound very… You know, there’s no thought behind it.
Katie: Harsh?
Carol: No thought behind it. So using a laser technique – which would be taking something and lasering it, I think is a better choice than just being blunt.
Katie: Okay. Tone has something to do with it too – wouldn’t you say?
Carol: Definitely.
Katie: If you’re going to laser because you want to be more blunt or succinct…
Carol: Because you want to be more succinct, not blunt.
Katie: If you’re lasering because you want to be more succinct, see that you are doing it with a tone that’s firm.
Carol: Right.
Katie: Okay. That’s addressing that first category of women or situations that you’re in – when you feel like you’re not self-advocating.
Enter the second category. Women that are strong and rollover people easily and can be seen as controlling or dominating…
Carol: Uncaring.
Katie: You know who you are. Your intent is probably not to be uncaring, but you have trouble with people seeing you as too blunt.
Carol: Yes.
Katie: Would you use – in that case, lasering?
Carol: Probably not.
Katie: I’m voice texting evidently.
Carol: Right. Probably not, right? You would not use lasering if that was the type of person you are because you’re probably already using lasering and it’s getting you in a little bit of trouble because people are not sensing that you are all about the mission – which maybe where you’re coming from.
“I’m all about the mission. I’m about getting the work done so that we can get on mission and do everything, blah…” And what they’re sensing is – you’re just a hardhearted horrible person.
So don’t use lasering, don’t be blunt, put a little bit more thought behind what you’re saying and how somebody might take it.
What did you say?
Katie: I’m looking for a hardheaded woman. Kat Stevens.
Now, I’m going to keep throwing in songs here because Tip Number 35 was hum or whistle or sing. I’ve just edited it.
Carol: Oh, there you go. It has nothing to do with skipping.
Katie: But don’t skip – which doesn’t show up well on radio anyway.
So there you go. Its hardheaded women that need to be less blunt, tone it down a bit, take a breath, let silence do the heavy lifting.
Carol: Nice. So no matter what side you’re coming at this, silence can always be the one that does that heavy lifting.
Katie: Do you want a song about silence right now? Because we’ve already done two – it seems like there should be three.
Carol: Yeah. It completes everything.
Katie: I’m looking for the sound of silence. My husband sometimes says, “I wish we had the sound of silence around here more often.” Is that referring to me?
Carol: I would guess that it is. But does he mean – the song?
Katie: I think he means – my mouth.
Carol: Are you going to sing the sound of silence for us?
Katie: “Hello darkness, my old friend. I’ve come to talk with you again.”
Carol: Katie has a nice voice.
Katie: Thank you. I need some backup musicians, but…
Alright, back to balancing.
This is just a nice conversation with you, Carol – about things to consider in our everyday worlds.
- Don’t hesitate to forgive, but don’t be a pushover.
- Be firm – backbone when you need to.
- Don’t let people push you when you don’t want to. But occasionally, be an easy going person.
- Get to the point by using efficiency in your language.
- Laser your communication.
- Know when not to be too blunt, know when to be a little blunt.
[MUSIC PLAYS]
Katie: Tips Number 34, 36 and 37.
Carol: Hum or whistle or sing.
That’s it for this episode of the Skirt Strategies podcast. Thank you for joining us. And please be sure to leave a question or comment at skirtstrategies.com. Remember that success comes when you lead using your natural female strengths.
[END OF TRANSCRIPT]